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Post by TKennedy on Jan 18, 2023 10:59:20 GMT -5
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Swing?
Jan 18, 2023 13:55:38 GMT -5
Post by Russell Letson on Jan 18, 2023 13:55:38 GMT -5
The article locates swing in the relationship between soloists and rhythm section. But what about the rhythm section itself? The Basie rhythm section swung like crazy, all by itself, which suggests that it's the variations in downbeat placement all by itself--even if it's only, say, the bass player or the pianist's left hand.
The standard-notation representation of swing rhythm is "dotted eighth notes," which every workshop instructor I've had pointed out is only an approximation of what actually happens in performance.
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Swing?
Jan 18, 2023 13:58:31 GMT -5
Post by millring on Jan 18, 2023 13:58:31 GMT -5
The article locates swing in the relationship between soloists and rhythm section. But what about the rhythm section itself? The Basie rhythm section swung like crazy, all by itself, which suggests that it's the variations in downbeat placement all by itself--even if it's only, say, the bass player or the pianist's left hand. The standard-notation representation of swing rhythm is "dotted eighth notes," which every workshop instructor I've had pointed out is only an approximation of what actually happens in performance. I was kinda thinking the same thing. I just wasn't sure how to say it. Beyond that, it made me wonder how it could be so if everyone in the ensemble was doing it. Wouldn't one part have to be constant for the other to delay? And isn't the mark of a good swing band the fact that the rhythm section is so dead-on steady?
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Swing?
Jan 18, 2023 14:12:13 GMT -5
Dub likes this
Post by Russell Letson on Jan 18, 2023 14:12:13 GMT -5
I would say that basic time-keeping signals where the "one" is and does not speed up or slow down. Swinging is the art of moving the "one" in ways that retain that regularity while doing that thing that swing does. (My body gets things that my words can't capture.) The bass players I know are very aware of keeping the group together while also propelling it. It seems to be one of those skills that can be learned but are nearly impossible to teach (except by example).
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Dub
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Post by Dub on Jan 18, 2023 15:41:44 GMT -5
I would say that basic time-keeping signals where the "one" is and does not speed up or slow down. Swinging is the art of moving the "one" in ways that retain that regularity while doing that thing that swing does. (My body gets things that my words can't capture.) The bass players I know are very aware of keeping the group together while also propelling it. It seems to be one of those skills that can be learned but are nearly impossible to teach (except by example). This applies to bluegrass rhythm guitar as well. An old-timey rhythm guitarist would kill a bluegrass band.
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Swing?
Jan 18, 2023 19:47:39 GMT -5
Post by howard lee on Jan 18, 2023 19:47:39 GMT -5
I would say that basic time-keeping signals where the "one" is and does not speed up or slow down. Swinging is the art of moving the "one" in ways that retain that regularity while doing that thing that swing does. (My body gets things that my words can't capture.) The bass players I know are very aware of keeping the group together while also propelling it. It seems to be one of those skills that can be learned but are nearly impossible to teach (except by example). This applies to bluegrass rhythm guitar as well. An old-timey rhythm guitarist would kill a bluegrass band. I was once an old-timey rhythm guitarist. Now I am just an old timer.
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Post by aquaduct on Jan 18, 2023 20:58:47 GMT -5
I've known that pretty much forever. One of the big "determiners" of different musical styles is the relationship between the actual (metronome) tempo of the bars and how far behind or on top of the tempo the rest of the notes are. We used to do those kinds of things in the studio I worked in where we would use our Synclavier synthesiser to correct individual drum hits if the drummer tended to get lazy. You could both hear the corrections and see them in the millisecond digital data as the beat came alive.
You put a large band together with good musicians all subconsciously playing "wrong" and the effect is awesome. Subconsciously the listener detects the various deviations from "perfect" and returning to "perfect" as tension and release which gives the music it's power. No matter what the genre.
It's also one of the things that works against metronomes. No, you don't want to be exactly on the beat. You want to use it as a corrective roadmap to develop "groove" against.
Wonder what took the scientists so long to catch on.
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Post by PaulKay on Jan 19, 2023 10:39:34 GMT -5
What this article describes as the essential part of swing rhythm is basic shuffle time. Shuffle time is typically not noted in music notation. They just add a note to the top of the page: But if you wanted to notate it, you need to use triplets In swing time you leave out one of the triplet notes
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