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Post by John B on May 18, 2023 20:31:01 GMT -5
My wife pointed out our local Goodwill-type organization has a weekly auction and an "Ayar" guitar was up for sale. Mid-60's Japanese electric, high action, rusty bridge, missing a string. I pulled off the strings, wiped it down and put on new ones. Plugged it in. There's a dodgy short and I can't really tell what exactly the switches do, but it works! I need to pull it apart and fix the wiring, pull the bridge off and clean it up, and fix the neck angle. But it was $60 to charity.
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Post by Village Idiot on May 18, 2023 21:21:23 GMT -5
Let us know, after you get all that done sometime in 2028, how it sounds.
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Post by Marty on May 18, 2023 21:58:34 GMT -5
You lucky SOB. 3 switches 2 pickups. On/Off for each pickup and a Rhythm/Solo switch with Volume and Tone roller knobs. Common Japanese setup.
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Post by John B on May 18, 2023 22:12:26 GMT -5
You lucky SOB. 3 switches 2 pickups. On/Off for each pickup and a Rhythm/Solo switch with Volume and Tone roller knobs. Common Japanese setup. Ahh, that's an "R"! I thought it was a P, maybe for phase switch. I'll look for some wiring diagrams. If I'm lucky it's just a loose wire at the jack. Hopefully not a switch issue. How would you clean up a rusty bridge? I thought of soaking it with WD-40, and I haven't asked Google U yet. I don't want it pretty, just not leaving rusty dust around (and rusting further).
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Post by Marty on May 18, 2023 22:23:29 GMT -5
You lucky SOB. 3 switches 2 pickups. On/Off for each pickup and a Rhythm/Solo switch with Volume and Tone roller knobs. Common Japanese setup. Ahh, that's an "R"! I thought it was a P, maybe for phase switch. I'll look for some wiring diagrams. If I'm lucky it's just a loose wire at the jack. Hopefully not a switch issue. How would you clean up a rusty bridge? I thought of soaking it with WD-40, and I haven't asked Google U yet. I don't want it pretty, just not leaving rusty dust around (and rusting further). Clean stuff first with some electro spray, not WD 40. A .270 rifle barrel brush makes a great jack cleaner. WD 40 is fine for getting dirt out of the hardware followed by a toothbrush, just don't tell her you used her brush. I use Lock Ease to lube tuners, not oil as it can mess up brass parts.
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Post by howard lee on May 19, 2023 6:03:33 GMT -5
My wife pointed out our local Goodwill-type organization has a weekly auction and an "Ayar" guitar was up for sale. Mid-60's Japanese electric, high action, rusty bridge, missing a string. I pulled off the strings, wiped it down and put on new ones. Plugged it in. There's a dodgy short and I can't really tell what exactly the switches do, but it works! I need to pull it apart and fix the wiring, pull the bridge off and clean it up, and fix the neck angle. But it was $60 to charity.
This guitar looks like Hrothgar's battle axe.
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Post by Marty on May 19, 2023 7:14:14 GMT -5
You lucky SOB. 3 switches 2 pickups. On/Off for each pickup and a Rhythm/Solo switch with Volume and Tone roller knobs. Common Japanese setup. Ahh, that's an "R"! I thought it was a P, maybe for phase switch. I'll look for some wiring diagrams. If I'm lucky it's just a loose wire at the jack. Hopefully not a switch issue. How would you clean up a rusty bridge? I thought of soaking it with WD-40, and I haven't asked Google U yet. I don't want it pretty, just not leaving rusty dust around (and rusting further). The R switch will probably have a cap and resistor tied to it. That acts like you turned the volume control down slightly. The switches are actually knife switches and can get corroded but clean up easily. Don't use WD-40 on the electronics. Ace Hardware carries a electro cleaner in their automotive dept that is cheap and good. Get some Lock-Ease to use on the tuners, not oil. After so many years of working on Harmonys with old Waverly tuners I've found that Lock-Ease really does work better on brass parts. Keep it off plastic parts but otherwise be liberal with it and jus wipe off the excess.
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Post by drlj on May 19, 2023 7:48:11 GMT -5
Cool!
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Post by John B on May 19, 2023 7:50:20 GMT -5
Let us know, after you get all that done sometime in 2028, how it sounds. If all goes well, I fully anticipate being able to bring it to IdiotJam 2031, so you can test it out.
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Post by TKennedy on May 19, 2023 7:54:24 GMT -5
Looks like it could make an espresso during break.
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Post by drlj on May 19, 2023 7:57:18 GMT -5
It does have a nice shine.
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Post by Marty on May 19, 2023 8:39:42 GMT -5
Just a repost of an earlier comment because I added to it.
The R switch will probably have a cap and resistor tied to it. That acts like you turned the volume control down slightly. The switches are actually knife switches and can get corroded but clean up easily. Don't use WD-40 on the electronics. Ace Hardware carries a electro cleaner in their automotive dept that is cheap and good.
Get some Lock-Ease to use on the tuners, not oil. After so many years of working on Harmonys with old Waverly tuners I've found that Lock-Ease really does work better on brass parts. Keep it off plastic parts but otherwise be liberal with it and jus wipe off the excess.
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Post by Cosmic Wonder on May 19, 2023 9:06:50 GMT -5
That is so cool! Shades of Lindley.
Mike
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Post by PaulKay on May 19, 2023 9:11:23 GMT -5
Seemingly made before routers became common.
Given it's age, I wonder what type of capacitor they used in the tone controls and if the capacitance value has degraded from age? The older style paper and oil caps will dry out which could changes the capacitance. That'll affect the frequencies that get filtered. Swapping it out with a new cap of the same value can assure you get the tone the builders intended.
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Post by Marty on May 19, 2023 9:20:42 GMT -5
Obviously made before routers became common. You mean CNC routers? It is routed out for pickups and controls. Just not as deep as some other guitars. There has to be a path for wiring to get to the output jack. EDIT: The one disappointment is that it may have, or most likely has, a plywood body.
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Post by PaulKay on May 19, 2023 9:27:20 GMT -5
Obviously made before routers became common. You mean CNC routers? It is routed out for pickups and controls. Just not as deep as some other guitars. There has to be a path for wiring to get to the output jack. EDIT: The one disappointment is that it may have, or most likely has, a plywood body. Given its age, I wonder what type of capacitor they used in the tone controls and if the capacitance value has degraded from age? Do you have any guesses? The older style paper and oil caps will dry out which could changes the capacitance. That'll affect the frequencies that get filtered. I would think swapping it out with a new cap of the same value would assure it gets the tone the builders intended.
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Post by John B on May 19, 2023 9:54:17 GMT -5
Paul, I wonder that too. The nice thing is it looks like I can take a peek at the electronics without removing the fancy new strings I just put on (too bad I didn't have a cheap set around!). I will also need to find my soldering iron and assorted accessories. I'm not sure whether my short issue is a jack issue or a switch issue, or just a loose wire or two somewhere in the system, but I figure I should at least be able to make sure all the wires are secure with good solder joints first, and then determine if a switch or control is dodgy. But I would like to get the electronics to original spec
Back in the 2000s one of the guys at the Steel Guitar Forum would re-gauss pickup magnets to get them back to original spec. It could really make a difference with some of the pickups from the 30's and 40's. I'm not sure how these pickups are made. Since there are pole pieces they're not the Teisco gold foils with refrigerator magnets.
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Post by Marty on May 19, 2023 12:57:02 GMT -5
Caps are probably disc type. Cap value on the tone control probably .02. Rhythm/Solo cap maybe .005 with a 50k resistor or 75% of the volume pot resistance.
Lift the plate that has the jack and remove the jack. Then lift the control plate and pickup plate. This whole kit and kaboodle may then slide out on the bass side. There will be a grounding wire to the vibrato or maybe the bridge that will have to be unsoldered from the jack or control plate.
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Post by John B on May 22, 2023 16:02:30 GMT -5
Marty, you will be happy to know it's actually a baritone guitar (26.5" scale or so) made by Fujigen Gakki (not Teisco) circa 1962-64 or thereabouts. It's usually marketed as a Teisco VN-2, even though it was not made by them. The VN-4 had 4 pickups. Yay FB Groups, where someone showed me a pic of their matching VN-2 and VN-4.
I tuned the existing strings down to B and it sounds good, if ever so slightly floppy. I'll hit up GC for some baritone strings, as my local stores don't have them and I need to make a trip up to Indy for some other shopping (yay pants).
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Post by PaulKay on May 22, 2023 16:38:03 GMT -5
Marty, you will be happy to know it's actually a baritone guitar (26.5" scale or so) made by Fujigen Gakki (not Teisco) circa 1962-64 or thereabouts. It's usually marketed as a Teisco VN-2, even though it was not made by them. The VN-4 had 4 pickups. Yay FB Groups, where someone showed me a pic of their matching VN-2 and VN-4. I tuned the existing strings down to B and it sounds good, if ever so slightly floppy. I'll hit up GC for some baritone strings, as my local stores don't have them and I need to make a trip up to Indy for some other shopping (yay pants). You can make some mighty fine music on a baritone. This one that Bill is playing is a 26.5 scale length with acoustic baritone strings.
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