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Post by david on Jul 1, 2023 20:54:14 GMT -5
Ever since my posts touching on the the US Supreme Court's shift, I have focused some attention on the future.
At my dinner with a friend last night we discussed many things, including the survival of the USA and earth. The thought cropped up to both of us that brutal life and death decisions might need to be made; that idealistic notions of justice vs. injustice; right vs. wrong, might need to be set to the side. Brutality might trump ideals.
Yes, it might be the theme to a scifi movie. But the fact remains that people in pampered civilizations like the USA, Canada, Australia, England, Scotland, Ireland, etc. are not accustomed to the hardships necessary to continue with the idealistic values that their countries wants to support. We are not as physically and mentally tough as our parents. We are comparatively pampered and soft.
The brutality of Putin might be a force that the USA cannot, idealistically, deal with.
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Post by Cosmic Wonder on Jul 1, 2023 21:30:40 GMT -5
Or not.
Mike
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Dub
Administrator
I'm gettin' so the past is the only thing I can remember.
Posts: 19,916
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Post by Dub on Jul 2, 2023 0:24:55 GMT -5
I don't worry about personal survival, I have already survived.
I wouldn’t say I worry about the human race's survival or life on earth either. I am pessimistic about either's long-term survival, but it doesn't worry me. I doubt this nation will survive through the life of my great-granddaughter Loretta, who is now eight years old. I don't see any will to survive as a free nation, let alone improve. This will either be a war-torn friendless country or a vassal state to another power.
The human race will do nothing to stop all the violence we are doing to the planet and to each other. Addressing critical issues like pollution, both chemical and thermal, population growth, species extinction, energy consumption, addiction to drugs, and any other convenient distraction, and the list goes on, are interesting areas for academic study but we don't find it convenient to even discuss truly meaningful action let alone take any meaningful action. Humanity and what we call civilization are incapable of imagining our demise.
I suspect that human civilization will not survive long enough to be meaningful in the total history of this planet. Life will evolve to survive the poisonous mess we've made of the earth. Other forms of life will emerge and, in another four billion years or so, all life on Earth will end as the planet enters its death throes.
I don't find all of this especially depressing, it's just the way things work out.
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Post by millring on Jul 2, 2023 5:33:27 GMT -5
If people would stop turning on their windshield wipers, maybe it would finally stop raining. Conversely, since the Midwest is suffering a pretty bad drought, maybe it's time to turn ON the windshield wipers.
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Post by millring on Jul 2, 2023 5:39:46 GMT -5
Humanity and what we call civilization are incapable of imagining our demise. And yet, that's what we're doing right here. And that's what both political parties have been empowering themselves declaring for our entire lifetime. The religious have been declaring it for millennia now. The neo-science pagan is just now joining the chorus. To look at the world and see nothing but impending apocalypse is to ignore the almost unimaginable progress we are enjoying as we live longer, eat better, enjoy more freedom for more people. The cheap guitars of today are better than the expensive guitars of 50 years ago.
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Post by millring on Jul 2, 2023 5:55:23 GMT -5
At my dinner with a friend last night we discussed many things, including the survival of the USA and earth. The thought cropped up to both of us that brutal life and death decisions might need to be made; that idealistic notions of justice vs. injustice; right vs. wrong, might need to be set to the side. Brutality might trump ideals. On this I can agree, though. Though it doesn't signal the end of the world, it certainly strikes me as a valid prediction for the end of the USA and the end of civility as I watch the progressive movement become ever more aggressive in seeking to put down public debate by use of institutional force of law, re-education, licensing, and accreditation. That's all out in the open. Boiling beneath that surface is a rage I see every day on facebook aimed at anyone who questions the progressive dogma.
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Post by John B on Jul 2, 2023 7:41:36 GMT -5
At my dinner with a friend last night we discussed many things, including the survival of the USA and earth. The thought cropped up to both of us that brutal life and death decisions might need to be made; that idealistic notions of justice vs. injustice; right vs. wrong, might need to be set to the side. Brutality might trump ideals. On this I can agree, though. Though it doesn't signal the end of the world, it certainly strikes me as a valid prediction for the end of the USA and the end of civility as I watch the progressive movement become ever more aggressive in seeking to put down public debate by use of institutional force of law, re-education, licensing, and accreditation. That's all out in the open. Boiling beneath that surface is a rage I see every day on facebook aimed at anyone who questions the progressive dogma. That's strange, because I see what you see. Only the word "progressive" is replaced by something along the lines of "right wing." You fear "progressives," but "progressives" don't have the power in this country and aren't the ones with force of law (including the ability to use those laws to force re-education).
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Post by millring on Jul 2, 2023 7:52:56 GMT -5
On this I can agree, though. Though it doesn't signal the end of the world, it certainly strikes me as a valid prediction for the end of the USA and the end of civility as I watch the progressive movement become ever more aggressive in seeking to put down public debate by use of institutional force of law, re-education, licensing, and accreditation. That's all out in the open. Boiling beneath that surface is a rage I see every day on facebook aimed at anyone who questions the progressive dogma. That's strange, because I see what you see. Only the word "progressive" is replaced by something along the lines of "right wing." You fear "progressives," but "progressives" don't have the power in this country and aren't the ones with force of law (including the ability to use those laws to force re-education). Perhaps the difference is in which institutions we are looking at, and which are using the institutions as they were originally imagined to try to hold a culture together vs. institutions that have evolved toward, and become completely progressive, being used to force change.
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Post by Marshall on Jul 2, 2023 8:04:26 GMT -5
To look at the world and see nothing but impending apocalypse is to ignore the almost unimaginable progress we are enjoying as we live longer, eat better, enjoy more freedom for more people. The cheap guitars of today are better than the expensive guitars of 50 years ago. I'm pretty much with you on that. Yes, civilization is probably heading towards another bad episode. WWIII ? Maybe. It's what we humans do. But humanity will survive again. Life on the planet will go on. I'm reminded that the Renaissance came after the Black Plague. Our present prosperity came after the devastation of WWII. Ebb and flow. I'm not going to worry about it.
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Post by John B on Jul 2, 2023 9:57:30 GMT -5
That's strange, because I see what you see. Only the word "progressive" is replaced by something along the lines of "right wing." You fear "progressives," but "progressives" don't have the power in this country and aren't the ones with force of law (including the ability to use those laws to force re-education). Perhaps the difference is in which institutions we are looking at, and which are using the institutions as they were originally imagined to try to hold a culture together vs. institutions that have evolved toward, and become completely progressive, being used to force change. Probably. We're both really smart people, and oftentimes (you more than me) put a lot of thought into what we're trying to understand and the ideas we're trying to express. I posit we both can't be wrong, so we're both probably right.
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Post by PaulKay on Jul 2, 2023 10:43:54 GMT -5
There is absolutely no reason to believe we won't have a sixth in store for us at some point. I will say though that when it does happen and new species arise from the maelstrom they will look back to determine the earth's history all over again.
And I can say with confidence that this new history will show that our era had the coolest artifacts of all others.
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Post by RickW on Jul 2, 2023 11:05:53 GMT -5
I have spent most of my adult life considering, every day, how incredibly lucky I've been to live the life I have. When you look at the squalor, the poverty, the hand to mouth existence 99.9 percent of humans have lived in since we first started to record history, and look now at our comfy homes that keep us warm in the winter and cool in the summer, with our clean running water, our health care, the immense variety and quantity of food we have available to us, our toys and recreation, the amount of leisure time we have...and then consider what a large percentage of humanity doesn't have those things -- we're living in paradise. That we seem intent on ripping it apart, or sucking it dry and setting it on fire, is painful to contemplate.
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Post by Cornflake on Jul 2, 2023 13:27:12 GMT -5
There's nothing we can do about it. Have a beer.
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Post by RickW on Jul 2, 2023 13:47:03 GMT -5
There's nothing we can do about it. Have a beer. It does seem to help.
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Survival
Jul 2, 2023 13:47:23 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by millring on Jul 2, 2023 13:47:23 GMT -5
There's nothing we can do about it. Have a beer. My phone doesn't have the smile button I would be posting here.
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Dub
Administrator
I'm gettin' so the past is the only thing I can remember.
Posts: 19,916
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Post by Dub on Jul 2, 2023 14:10:09 GMT -5
Yeast thrives in a good wort or must. If allowed to grow unchecked, yeast is eventually killed by the alcohol it produces.
I think Homo sapiens is like that only more complex. Same life process, different scale.
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Post by drlj on Jul 2, 2023 15:23:14 GMT -5
Ah, it's been a hell of a ride, but all rides come to an end.
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Post by Shannon on Jul 2, 2023 16:17:18 GMT -5
Some of us are convinced that this ride is only the prelude.
I have concern for the way the world is going.
But I have no fear.
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Post by Marshall on Jul 2, 2023 16:38:52 GMT -5
Yeast thrives in a good wort or must. If allowed to grow unchecked, yeast is eventually killed by the alcohol it produces. I think Homo sapiens is like that only more complex. Same life process, different scale. So, your saying our whole purpose is to create beer.
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Survival
Jul 2, 2023 19:43:50 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by aquaduct on Jul 2, 2023 19:43:50 GMT -5
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