Dub
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I'm gettin' so the past is the only thing I can remember.
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Post by Dub on Jul 13, 2023 14:05:17 GMT -5
Just saw this recent video and wondered what people here think of the idea.
Best viewed with quality headphones or ear buds.
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Post by drlj on Jul 13, 2023 15:00:50 GMT -5
I have guitars done both ways. I like the unslotted but the other guitars sound fine. Who knows?
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Post by RickW on Jul 13, 2023 15:09:42 GMT -5
I’ve never found an iota of difference no matter what the pegs are, or how they are made. So, color me skeptical.
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Dub
Administrator
I'm gettin' so the past is the only thing I can remember.
Posts: 19,903
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Post by Dub on Jul 13, 2023 15:17:47 GMT -5
I’ve never found an iota of difference no matter what the pegs are, or how they are made. So, color me skeptical. The point of the video isn’t whether the pegs are slotted or not, it’s whether the bridge itself is slotted to increase the break angle at the saddle. Even these old ears can hear a huge difference in the sound as demonstrated in the video. I’m listening using a pair of Beats Fit Pro ear buds with noise cancellation. |
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Post by TKennedy on Jul 13, 2023 15:45:06 GMT -5
I have seen a few of Driftwood’ videos and was a little unimpressed with the guy. He had one on neck resets that was just wrong.
I have always used unslotted pins since I started serious building in 2003. Mainly for the stability of the ball end. I have also always drilled the pin holes parallel to ,the saddle slot so the break angles are equal across the board and the holes don’t line up with a grain line (to minimize the risk of splitting)
I have never specifically a-b’d two guitars however when converting to unslotted so maybe there is something going on tone wise. That could be nice addition to the real reason you do it, ball end stability and even break angle.
I actually cut the slots with a jigsaw and a Bosch blade and widen them with small files. I made my own hand slotting file as the StewMac one was really narrow. I just looked and now see they are offering two sizes with a 0.051” for the bass. That will help as widening the slots after the initial cut is a tedious process.
I think the ideal bridge is one with the contour/radius like Martin that is a little higher on the bass side to allow even saddle exposure across the bridge and pin holes running parallel to the saddle combined with unslotted bridge pins.
I just worked on a Collings and that was their layout as well.
The worst would be like Gibson. Flat topped bridge slotted bridge pins, and pin holes parallel to the bridge. I have converted some of those to unslotted pins just to get the saddle lower and still have a break angle.
Marty??
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Post by Russell Letson on Jul 13, 2023 17:29:08 GMT -5
I'm not hearing it through very decent Advent powered speakers. And I confess that as soon as I heard the guy say that the responsiveness could be felt rather than heard, my skepticism went up a notch. (Though, to be fair, "responsiveness" is a matter of proportion of effort to output.)
FWIW, I checked the bridge that Marty made for my Guild D-40 and bridge on one of my Cloutiers and see that both have slotted pin holes. (The Goodall and my antique Washburns and Martins are in cases right now, so I can't do a complete survey.)
And if break angle over the saddle is a Thing, what about break over the nut?
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Post by Marty on Jul 13, 2023 17:40:39 GMT -5
Hmm.
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Post by Cosmic Wonder on Jul 13, 2023 17:47:36 GMT -5
The Collings has unslotted end pins. The Seagull has slotted end pins. The Collings sounds better than the Seagull. Irrefutable proof positive that one is better than the other.
I think.
Maybe.
Mike
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Dub
Administrator
I'm gettin' so the past is the only thing I can remember.
Posts: 19,903
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Post by Dub on Jul 13, 2023 17:55:08 GMT -5
And if break angle over the saddle is a Thing, what about break over the nut? Break angle over the saddle has always been a "thing." Anytime a repairman has lowered a saddle for me to improve the action * it has also reduced the tonal response of the guitar. After a neck reset, a new, taller saddle can be used to restore the guitar's volume and tonal response. I don't know anything about the guy in the video or his guitars but, as he says, changing the pins alone isn't going to make a noticeable difference. *Lowering the saddle both reduces the break angle of the strings and reduces the torque being applied to the top. |
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Post by John B on Jul 13, 2023 17:59:29 GMT -5
And if break angle over the saddle is a Thing, what about break over the nut? Break angle over the saddle has always been a "thing." Anytime a repairman has lowered a saddle for me to improve the action * it has also reduced the tonal response of the guitar. After a neck reset, a new, taller saddle can be used to restore the guitar's volume and tonal response. I don't know anything about the guy in the video or his guitars but, as he says, changing the pins alone isn't going to make a noticeable difference. No fair adding a * without including the related footnote. |
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Post by Marty on Jul 13, 2023 18:31:51 GMT -5
I do have my own thoughts on this.
As far as a tool I took a jig saw blade and put a handle on it sometime back in the 80s so I could slot a bridge when strings would always get stuck and yanking them out would do damage. This also worked rather well when there was just a slight amount of plate damage. Slotting the bridge, moving the string slightly forward and then insert the pin, slot facing away from the saddle.
I still have and use this tool and this reminds me I think it's time to make a new sharp one.
I'm bigger on slotting the bridge than not slotting it and if you do slot it it must be done right. But this is more for structural reasons than tone. Just sawing a slot can cause problems if the slot is too narrow for the string, back to that string getting stuck in the bridge.
I do notice string balls ruining bridge plates more with slotted pins
Slotted wooden pins can crack and splinter easier than unslotted, plastic it doesn't matter much.
Not everything on a guitar can be done just because it sounds better. Put steel strings on a classical guitar, sucker sounds fantastic, and rips itself apart in short order.
I'm big on Terry's parallel saddle and pin holes, it just makes so much common sense. I also like Gibson's belly up, flat, tapered bridge for a few reasons. That's a pontification for another time.
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Post by Marty on Jul 13, 2023 18:33:53 GMT -5
And if break angle over the saddle is a Thing, what about break over the nut? I don't know anything about the guy in the video or his guitars but, as he says, changing the pins alone isn't going to make a noticeable difference. Give that man a ceegaar. |
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Post by Marty on Jul 13, 2023 18:37:47 GMT -5
Getting all the angles right everywhere is the key. Too much here and too little there makes a difference.
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Post by Marty on Jul 13, 2023 18:45:24 GMT -5
I'm not hearing it through very decent Advent powered speakers. And I confess that as soon as I heard the guy say that the responsiveness could be felt rather than heard, my skepticism went up a notch. (Though, to be fair, "responsiveness" is a matter of proportion of effort to output.) FWIW, I checked the bridge that Marty made for my Guild D-40 and bridge on one of my Cloutiers and see that both have slotted pin holes. (The Goodall and my antique Washburns and Martins are in cases right now, so I can't do a complete survey.) And if break angle over the saddle is a Thing, what about break over the nut? I do like making bridges. Takes more thinking than one would think. I screwed one up last week because I forgot that the guitar had a very thick bridge plate and the top was not going to move under string pressure. 64 Gibson J-50adj. built like brick shithouse and a nice guitar despite Gibson's best efforts to screw it up. |
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Dub
Administrator
I'm gettin' so the past is the only thing I can remember.
Posts: 19,903
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Post by Dub on Jul 13, 2023 19:00:53 GMT -5
No fair adding a * without including the related footnote. You're so right. sorry. I got interrupted in the middle of composing that and totally spaced it off. I no longer remember what the footnote was going to say but I've gone back and added one that could have been what I was thinking. (Or else not.) |
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Post by John B on Jul 13, 2023 19:18:14 GMT -5
No fair adding a * without including the related footnote. You're so right. sorry. I got interrupted in the middle of composing that and totally spaced it off. I no longer remember what the footnote was going to say but I've gone back and added one that could have been what I was thinking. (Or else not.) Thanks! |
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Post by howard lee on Jul 14, 2023 7:19:09 GMT -5
Also, don't let your babies grow up to be cowboys.
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Post by Marshall on Jul 14, 2023 9:21:36 GMT -5
Just saw this recent video and wondered what people here think of the idea. Best viewed with quality headphones or ear buds. I think the slotted bridge does sound better in the video. I doubt I want to venture an attempt to do this myself. |
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