Bees aren't in danger, and neither are songbirds.

[millring]

I constantly see "save the bees" memes on social media. It's an unshakeable tenet of whatever this common belief system is that includes also saving monarch butterflies (I'm guessing all on the power of a single novel by Barbara Kingsolver that even included the disclaimer that it was, indeed, a fiction). It won't change, but it's a curiosity that at least the NY Times is pointing it out.

www.nytimes.com/2023/08/19/business/beekeeping-companies-colony-collapse.html?campaign_id=190&emc=edit_ufn_20231103&instance_id=106832&nl=from-the-times®i_id=77394565&segment_id=149085&te=1&user_id=9538c8843492532337af9fcd060490fc

The same folks who are sure that bees and butterflies are on the brink of extinction also feel the same way about songbirds -- and that domestic cats are to blame. NPR sez, "not so fast".

www.npr.org/sections/13.7/2013/02/03/170851048/do-we-really-know-that-cats-kill-by-the-billions-not-so-fast

The common thread is, again, humans are ruining everything. And for some reason we are hell-bent on believing that of ourselves.

[aquaduct]

Nov 6, 2023 5:51:57 GMT -5 millring said:

I constantly see "save the bees" memes on social media. It's an unshakeable tenet of whatever this common belief system is that includes also saving monarch butterflies (I'm guessing all on the power of a single novel by Barbara Kingsolver that even included the disclaimer that it was, indeed, a fiction). It won't change, but it's a curiosity that at least the NY Times is pointing it out.

www.nytimes.com/2023/08/19/business/beekeeping-companies-colony-collapse.html?campaign_id=190&emc=edit_ufn_20231103&instance_id=106832&nl=from-the-times®i_id=77394565&segment_id=149085&te=1&user_id=9538c8843492532337af9fcd060490fc

The same folks who are sure that bees and butterflies are on the brink of extinction also feel the same way about songbirds -- and that domestic cats are to blame. NPR sez, "not so fast".

www.npr.org/sections/13.7/2013/02/03/170851048/do-we-really-know-that-cats-kill-by-the-billions-not-so-fast

The common thread is, again, humans are ruining everything. And for some reason we are hell-bent on believing that of ourselves.

I'd disagree slightly. The common thread is, "humans are ruining everything, so do whatever stupid thing we tell you to do or else!"

But that's a minor quibble. Unless, of course, it's your turn to suffer.

[Marshall]

It’s like Johnny Appleseed announcing, “Enough with the apples.”

[drlj]

Cats are devils, though. Evil little buggers. You have to watch them constantly so they don’t carry out their plan for world domination.

[Shannon]

Nov 6, 2023 8:34:24 GMT -5 drlj said:

Cats are devils, though. Evil little buggers. You have to watch them constantly so they don’t carry out their plan for world domination.

This is true.

[james]

NYT firewalled for me. Is there a link to bee studies in the article maybe? Monarch butterflies face different issues as far as I know. (I haven’t read Barbara Kingsolver).

The 2013 NPR story seems to say that a hard to measure number of feral and domestic US cats kill a large but hard to quantify number of US birds and mammals but that felines may have been unfairly vilified. I don’t know if more recent/other research can shed more light.

[drlj]

Migrating birds are killed by the thousands every year because, drawn by the lights, they slam into Chicago skyscrapers. The Field Museum has volunteers who gather them up each morning and catalog which birds and how many species there are. There were over 1000 killed one night recently. Some are injured and can be nursed back to health, but those are few in number.
Building owners are dimming some of the lights but in a city the size of Chicago, it’s not going to happen across the board.
I don’t know the impact it has on songbird populations, but it’s still an unwelcome situation and one I hope can be remedied or lessened, although, I think it’s a long shot.

[Dub]

Nov 6, 2023 9:22:37 GMT -5 james said:

NYT firewalled for me. Is there a link to bee studies in the article maybe? Monarch butterflies face different issues as far as I know. (I haven’t read Barbara Kingsolver).

The 2013 NPR story seems to say that a hard to measure number of feral and domestic US cats kill a large but hard to quantify number of US birds and mammals but that felines may have been unfairly vilified. I don’t know if more recent/other research can shed more light.

www.nytimes.com/2023/08/19/business/beekeeping-companies-colony-collapse.html?unlocked_article_code=1.8Uw.WVwJ.kPD-bWENCiT0&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

[james]

Thanks Dub. The comments are worth a look too. I learnt stuff.

From a cursory read about Monarch butterflies on Wikipedia, some of their populations do seem a bit beleaguered. I haven’t delved very deeply though.

[Russell Letson]

It's not like there are no problems for pollinators in general (or songbirds or butterflies or all manner of critters), and many of them are indeed rooted in human practices such as industrial-scale agriculture and habitat reduction. The PR factor/problem is the familiar charismatic-animal issue:

confusion about what kind of bees actually need to be rescued. There are more than 20,000 species of wild bees in the world, and many people don’t realize they exist. That’s because they don’t produce honey and live all but invisibly, in ground nests and cavities like hollow tree trunks. But they are indispensable pollinators of plants, flowers and crops.

And Monarch butterflies and all manner of migratory birds are affected by climate change and habitat loss. Commercial honeybee colonies can be managed, but the range of wild critters we are affecting just by spreading ourselves and our support systems around is not at all trivial.

[david]

Nov 6, 2023 5:51:57 GMT -5 millring said:

I constantly see "save the bees" memes on social media. It's an unshakeable tenet of whatever this common belief system is that includes also saving monarch butterflies (I'm guessing all on the power of a single novel by Barbara Kingsolver that even included the disclaimer that it was, indeed, a fiction). It won't change, but it's a curiosity that at least the NY Times is pointing it out.

www.nytimes.com/2023/08/19/business/beekeeping-companies-colony-collapse.html?campaign_id=190&emc=edit_ufn_20231103&instance_id=106832&nl=from-the-times®i_id=77394565&segment_id=149085&te=1&user_id=9538c8843492532337af9fcd060490fc

The same folks who are sure that bees and butterflies are on the brink of extinction also feel the same way about songbirds -- and that domestic cats are to blame. NPR sez, "not so fast".

www.npr.org/sections/13.7/2013/02/03/170851048/do-we-really-know-that-cats-kill-by-the-billions-not-so-fast

The common thread is, again, humans are ruining everything. And for some reason we are hell-bent on believing that of ourselves.

The bee issue is a bit more nuanced. According to an Oregon State University study it is the higher than historical death rate for honey bees that is the problem:
"These are challenging times for beekeeping and we have reason to be alarmed," said Ramesh Sagili, an entomologist with Oregon State University's College of Agricultural Sciences who has been conducting honeybee colony loss surveys for the past five years. "While 10-15 percent loss of colonies is considered acceptable, current rates of decline could drive professional beekeepers out of business.

To replace lost colonies, beekeepers must split healthy hives of 50,000 bees or more - a process that takes months and adds substantial costs for labor, new queens and equipment. However, as these lost colonies are replaced, there is not a drop in the total number of hives each year, according to Sagili.

. . . .

Bee colonies are in significant decline for a variety of reasons, according to Sagili. He said these include Varroa mites, which transmit viral diseases to bees; poor nutrition from a restricted diet resulting from large-scale monocropping; and exposure to pesticides when bees are foraging for nectar and pollen.

"We wish there was an easy answer," said Sagili, who is also a honeybee expert with the OSU Extension Service. "Each of these factors add stress to the bees and compromise their immune systems.""
From today.oregonstate.edu/archives/2014/jun/oregon-honeybee-losses-continue-economically-unsustainable-rate-osu-survey-finds#:~:text=Between%20Oct.,over%20the%20past%20six%20years.

[Marshall]

Brewers are in danger. We just filched their manager.

[Cornflake]

"Brewers are in danger. We just filched their manager."

He played for us. I've enjoyed seeing him do well.

[james]

Nov 6, 2023 9:39:20 GMT -5 drlj said:

Migrating birds are killed by the thousands every year because, drawn by the lights, they slam into Chicago skyscrapers. The Field Museum has volunteers who gather them up each morning and catalog which birds and how many species there are. There were over 1000 killed one night recently. Some are injured and can be nursed back to health, but those are few in number.
Building owners are dimming some of the lights but in a city the size of Chicago, it’s not going to happen across the board.
I don’t know the impact it has on songbird populations, but it’s still an unwelcome situation and one I hope can be remedied or lessened, although, I think it’s a long shot.

I just read about this situation in an article linked to by Nature. Well written and sometimes bleakly illustrated. A bit sad. 

www.biographic.com/city-of-glass/

[xyrn]

I haven’t read all of the links, but I’m wondering if the “banana crisis” is in the same vein.
I’ll have to look into this more.
(👁️❤️🍌)