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Post by John B on Nov 30, 2023 11:27:52 GMT -5
Based on everything I've read, the only ones making out in this current environment is Amazon. Maybe we should contract the whole thing out to them, seeing as how they've figured out how to get someone else to cover their costs.
P.S. I call this "A Modest Proposal."
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Post by Cosmic Wonder on Nov 30, 2023 11:36:08 GMT -5
I just watched an ad on tv for USPS on how it’s delivering for America was a good thing
Seems like there’s a disconnect somewhere.
Mike
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Post by millring on Nov 30, 2023 12:00:56 GMT -5
One of our city carriers just yesterday had a conversation with the UPS driver on her route. He said they are getting no overtime, hiring no holiday help. Some aren't even getting 40 hours in.
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Post by millring on Nov 30, 2023 12:04:43 GMT -5
If a business offers "free shipping", they are still paying to have the item shipped, They are still paying some to have the item shipped. Because the USPS delivers at under cost, they aren't paying the whole amount. If that's what we want, then we could adjust to it. But Amazon pays less than you do. You are subsidizing the most profitable industry in the world.
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Post by drlj on Nov 30, 2023 12:11:49 GMT -5
Amazon, at some point, will be doing most, if not all, of their own delivery. That’s their plan, anyway. The PO doesn’t deliver much Amazon here because there is a distribution center in town. It went up quickly and became unbelievably busy almost overnight. Everything Amazon is delivered by Amazon trucks. I see 4-5 of them in my neighborhood daily. I am not a Prime member, but, because the distribution center is so close, I sometimes get same day delivery. Neighbors get 2-3 deliveries a day at times because they buy nearly everything from Amazon. Our mail carrier tells me the only Amazon deliveries he makes now are padded envelopes and small parcels. I am old enough to remember when Amazon started and was viewed as an online bookstore. Now people buy anything and everything there. There is another huge distribution center going up a few miles east of here. Rural areas will probably be the last to get them, I suppose, but Amazon will build them as long as their situation stays what it is and people in those areas are online buying. And they are. I can see a fleet of Amazon trucks leaving the center every morning. In some areas of IL, the distribution centers dwarf what we have. This isn’t going to do rural POs any good for a long while. I would bet at some point the situation will drastically change, though, and it will be Amazon trucks rumbling down those rural roads. Amazon isn’t going away.
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Post by coachdoc on Nov 30, 2023 13:35:34 GMT -5
I go to the post office and pick up my mail out of my box and go to the front desk if I find a yellow card there. Works great and gets me out of the house on my lazy days.
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Post by Rob Hanesworth on Nov 30, 2023 13:54:40 GMT -5
I go to the post office and pick up my mail out of my box and go to the front desk if I find a yellow card there. Works great and gets me out of the house on my lazy days. In the small town where I grew up that was our only option. I think it still is in that town.
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Dub
Administrator
I'm gettin' so the past is the only thing I can remember.
Posts: 19,870
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Post by Dub on Nov 30, 2023 14:35:38 GMT -5
I go to the post office and pick up my mail out of my box and go to the front desk if I find a yellow card there. Works great and gets me out of the house on my lazy days. I did that for thirteen years in the small Iowa town of Robins. Fiddlerina and I did that for fifteen years living in Tiffin because we didn’t want an RFD box out on the street. In both cases the PO was only a block away. I really liked using a PO Box.
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Post by majorminor on Nov 30, 2023 14:54:08 GMT -5
I go to the post office and pick up my mail out of my box and go to the front desk if I find a yellow card there. Works great and gets me out of the house on my lazy days. +1. I don't even have to tell them my box number. UPS brings the Amazon in these parts and yes those guys bare getting home late.
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Post by epaul on Nov 30, 2023 15:24:01 GMT -5
If a business offers "free shipping", they are still paying to have the item shipped, They are still paying some to have the item shipped. Because the USPS delivers at under cost, they aren't paying the whole amount. If that's what we want, then we could adjust to it. But Amazon pays less than you do. You are subsidizing the most profitable industry in the world. I'm not subsidizing squat. I get from Amazon what I pay Amazon for. Fair business deal. And Amazon is paying the Post Office what Amazon contracted to pay them. Amazon made a deal with the Post Office and the Post Office entered freely and happily into that deal. If the Post Office can't handle the job they contracted to do, then the responsibility for that is on the Post Office. Not Amazon. Not the Amazon customer. The Post Office. Amazon isn't under paying. But it does appear the Post Office is in danger of under delivering. If the Post Office needs more people, then they need to hire more people and pay the price and offer the working conditions it takes to get them. If they can't or won't, then the Post Office needs to renege on the contract, look for a loophole, and hope Amazon doesn't take them to court. The Post Office was privatized and was to be run as a business. Maybe that was a real bad idea. That Amazon money looked pretty darn tasty to the Post Office bosses. But, it sure looks like they bit off more than they can chew to get it. It isn't the steak's fault if you bite off more than you can chew. Heads should roll. And workers should work safely and responsibly. In today's world, they don't have to kill themselves to cover their bosses stupidity. (unless the Republicans get in charge of everything)
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Post by epaul on Nov 30, 2023 15:53:02 GMT -5
An Amazon BTW all may be well aware of already, but what the heck...
I have taken to cross-checking Amazon prices with online Walmart and Target (especially Walmart). Sometimes, Walmart is the better deal, sometimes significantly (as every so often, some scam outfit on Amazon tries get away with an overly fat price).
I also have some deal with my "online" credit card that supposedly checks for the best price, but the most reliable check has been to google over and see what Walmart has and at what price (and I think Walmart does a little better job at product screening than Amazon).
Amazon is a wonder, especially for oddball stuff, but as Uncle Scrooge always said, trust but verify!
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Post by John B on Nov 30, 2023 17:30:52 GMT -5
They are still paying some to have the item shipped. Because the USPS delivers at under cost, they aren't paying the whole amount. If that's what we want, then we could adjust to it. But Amazon pays less than you do. You are subsidizing the most profitable industry in the world. I'm not subsidizing squat. I get from Amazon what I pay Amazon for. Fair business deal. And Amazon is paying the Post Office what Amazon contracted to pay them. Amazon made a deal with the Post Office and the Post Office entered freely and happily into that deal. If the Post Office can't handle the job they contracted to do, then the responsibility for that is on the Post Office. Not Amazon. Not the Amazon customer. The Post Office. Amazon isn't under paying. But it does appear the Post Office is in danger of under delivering. If the Post Office needs more people, then they need to hire more people and pay the price and offer the working conditions it takes to get them. If they can't or won't, then the Post Office needs to renege on the contract, look for a loophole, and hope Amazon doesn't take them to court. The Post Office was privatized and was to be run as a business. Maybe that was a real bad idea. That Amazon money looked pretty darn tasty to the Post Office bosses. But, it sure looks like they bit off more than they can chew to get it. It isn't the steak's fault if you bite off more than you can chew. Heads should roll. And workers should work safely and responsibly. In today's world, they don't have to kill themselves to cover their bosses stupidity. (unless the Republicans get in charge of everything) Amazon is underpaying by objective standards. Not underpaying according to the terms of the agreement, but they are definitely not paying for the actual cost of the service they are receiving.
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Post by Marshall on Nov 30, 2023 18:48:19 GMT -5
Good band name. I feel your pain. And so does Bemidji, apparently. I get lots of things sent "free shipping" but in our locale, Amazon, UPS, & FedEx do the heavy lifting themselves. Rarely does USPS deliver anything that doesn't fit in the mailbox. I got no answers. But clearly there is a big problem for the rural USPS.
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Post by Cosmic Wonder on Nov 30, 2023 20:31:13 GMT -5
I just figured out a solution to this problem. It’s so simple I don’t know why no one has thought of it.
The Post Office just needs to declare bankruptcy, rendering their contract with Amazon moot. They can also get rid of all those business fliers that everyone just throws away anyway. Then they can reorganize, refuse to service any rural routes, and just deliver mail to places where they can make money. Easy peasy. It’s the American way.
Mike
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Post by TKennedy on Nov 30, 2023 20:40:13 GMT -5
Here’s mine-
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Post by billhammond on Nov 30, 2023 20:54:01 GMT -5
Is that a MacPherson strut suspension, Terry?
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Post by Cosmic Wonder on Nov 30, 2023 21:22:23 GMT -5
Is that a MacPherson strut suspension, Terry? It’s a truss rod, in case the mail box starts buzzing. Mike
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Post by epaul on Dec 1, 2023 0:10:34 GMT -5
Amazon is underpaying by objective standards. Not underpaying according to the terms of the agreement, but they are definitely not paying for the actual cost of the service they are receiving. John, you have no idea what Amazon is paying. You have no idea what Amazon is paying anyone for shipping, USPS, UPS, Fed Ex. How can you determine they are underpaying? What is the shipping market and what do you know of it? Amazon and its shipping contractors settle on a price. That is called the market. There is no one here that knows the shipping market and what Amazon should pay. What we do know is that Amazon has come to mutually agreed upon contracts with USPS, UPS, and Fed Ex. The market has been determined. And we know that both UPS and Fed Ex are doing very well in the shipping market and have thrived because of Amazons' business. And what "objective standard" are you talking about? Objective standard? If someone isn't equipped or staffed to do the job they contracted to do, is it an "objective standard" that the blame lies with whoever hired them to do the job? Is it an "objective standard" that if I hire a contractor to build a house and they can't finish it because they don't have enough wood and nails to do the job that it is my fault? Is it an "objective standard" that if I get cold because I didn't wear a jacket that it is somehow the weather's fault? Pretty convenient things these "objective standards". Can I get some on Amazon? How on earth is it Amazons' fault that some Post Offices are understaffed and lack the facilities they should have to handle the load the Postal Service contracted them to deliver? The problem is we have a Postal Service that is understaffed, under-equipped, and lacks the facilities it needs to deliver. And the fault lies with a country that doesn't know what it wants its postal service to do or what it wants to pay for. Is the Postal Service a public service? Is the Postal Service a private shipping company? What the hell is it? And what do we need it to do? And are we willing to pay for what we want? Answer those questions, then work the solution. (or ask Canada what they do, and then do that). Meanwhile, blame Amazon.
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Dub
Administrator
I'm gettin' so the past is the only thing I can remember.
Posts: 19,870
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Post by Dub on Dec 1, 2023 0:51:42 GMT -5
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Post by Marshall on Dec 1, 2023 1:11:35 GMT -5
Amazon has built into their price a shipping cost overhead. Truth is it's more labor intensive and expensive to deliver to remote places far apart than in a close urban neighborhood. Their shipping cost estimates have to be an average of the cost of transportation. When they started out, they used UPS exclusively. But their increased volume allowed them to cut out that middle man and start their own shipping department in urban areas near their distribution centers. Another profit center for Amazon. Cut out UPS.
But the issue always has been the most unprofitable delivery areas are the remote rural areas. Much more mileage and time per package. Hurts their averaging cost structure. So they struck a deal with the hungry USPS that wanted a piece of the package traffic bonanza, to save their declining bacon. Except the deal they struck apparently was a very poor one. On paper it should work. USPS has outposts everywhere and the staff and facilities and structure to make it happen. But somebody botched the number crunching on the volume that would be coming down the pike. And it's crushing the USPS staff model, as we hear from millring and seemingly many (most?) similar rural communities.
My guess is the postal deal never figured on having to staff up for the increased volume. They just botched the numbers. It was supposed to be a savior for the declining volume of regular mail. A way to turn the red ink into black without having to add overhead. And of course there's the strange antiquated way the USPS calculates work load and pays wages. And a union base that serves the urban mail delivery employees more favorably than the rural ones.
It's surely a mess.
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