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Post by millring on Dec 1, 2023 5:01:35 GMT -5
So they struck a deal with the hungry desperate USPS And when you're desperate, you are in no position to bargain. And when you are a government agency, you can do a bargain that still assumes that you can continue to go into debt. The 2013 USPS just needed to stop the obvious and apparent bleeding. USPS was going into the hole at a rate of 12 billion a year. And from that standpoint, the Amazon deal was a smashing success -- when you count things the way only the government can count things -- being in a state of eternal debt. But the deal made it so that we are now only losing 6-8 billion a year. ....right up until a few years later when the collapse started and the vehicles broke down and the buildings big enough for mail weren't big enough for parcels ... and the postal workers started dropping like flies. It looked good at first, before those who struck the deal didn't count the cost of doing parcel business. (Heck, they're already going to all the houses anyway. What's the big deal in taking a few boxes with them to deliver?") And then when you think the problem will solve itself when the subsidized Amazon is finally able to take over ALL their own delivery ... then suddenly the USPS is back in 2013 and back to running a 12 billion dollar annual deficit because mail is just not what Americans do anymore. On the mail side of delivery, we already deliver WAY over 50% standard (junk) mail. First class mail is a minuscule task by comparison. Oh, and the USPS currently carries more parcels than any other service. That UPS that I told you isn't giving its workers enough work? Yesterday they dropped off 12 pallets of parcels for US to deliver for them. Ditto FedEx. Ditto DHL. They have to make a profit (or at the very least, not lose money). The USPS doesn't. The debt will take up the slack.
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Post by millring on Dec 1, 2023 9:36:26 GMT -5
Oh, and because Amazon throws millions at all the right progressive causes, all the right people don't mind that it is misusing a government agency for its own profit. It's called Woke Capitalism.
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Post by John B on Dec 1, 2023 9:40:10 GMT -5
Amazon is underpaying by objective standards. Not underpaying according to the terms of the agreement, but they are definitely not paying for the actual cost of the service they are receiving. John, you have no idea what Amazon is paying. You have no idea what Amazon is paying anyone for shipping, USPS, UPS, Fed Ex. How can you determine they are underpaying? What is the shipping market and what do you know of it? Amazon and its shipping contractors settle on a price. That is called the market. There is no one here that knows the shipping market and what Amazon should pay. What we do know is that Amazon has come to mutually agreed upon contracts with USPS, UPS, and Fed Ex. The market has been determined. And we know that both UPS and Fed Ex are doing very well in the shipping market and have thrived because of Amazons' business. And what "objective standard" are you talking about? Objective standard? If someone isn't equipped or staffed to do the job they contracted to do, is it an "objective standard" that the blame lies with whoever hired them to do the job? Is it an "objective standard" that if I hire a contractor to build a house and they can't finish it because they don't have enough wood and nails to do the job that it is my fault? Is it an "objective standard" that if I get cold because I didn't wear a jacket that it is somehow the weather's fault? Pretty convenient things these "objective standards". Can I get some on Amazon? How on earth is it Amazons' fault that some Post Offices are understaffed and lack the facilities they should have to handle the load the Postal Service contracted them to deliver? The problem is we have a Postal Service that is understaffed, under-equipped, and lacks the facilities it needs to deliver. And the fault lies with a country that doesn't know what it wants its postal service to do or what it wants to pay for. Is the Postal Service a public service? Is the Postal Service a private shipping company? What the hell is it? And what do we need it to do? And are we willing to pay for what we want? Answer those questions, then work the solution. (or ask Canada what they do, and then do that). Meanwhile, blame Amazon. I understand you have experience with the market, as that's a big part of what farming is about (it does not matter what you raise if you cannot realize $$$ from it). So surely you know what it's like to be over a barrel and accept a shit deal, clearly being underpaid because the other person has leverage ($$$) you need in the short term. So you accept it, even though you're being underpaid, because a little cash now (even if you're clearly being screwed) is better than no cash now. But if a farmer isn't making money because the market's being controlled by "Big Ag" who sets the prices, surely it's the farmer's fault. Is it Big Ag's fault that the farmer isn't getting paid a fair rate? No, it's the farmer's for agreeing to the deal.
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Post by epaul on Dec 1, 2023 11:25:13 GMT -5
So, in your analogy, the Postal Service, the largest delivery service in the world, is some poor little widow dirt farmer who is being bullied by Black Bart, the evil owner of the DoubleDee Ranch?
Poor little widow dirt farmer. Bad Black Bart rich powerful rancher.
WTH?
Outside of late night TV...
Who sets the Postal Service shipping rates? The Postal Service does. Walk into the Post Office sometime and tell them you want them to ship your box of bricks to your cousin Ed in Arkansas for a $1.50 and they will tell you their rate for shipping that box is $12.00. You can bargain till the cops come to haul you away, but the truth is, the Postal Service sets their shipping rates. Not you. Not Amazon.
It seems simple enough, but I will repeat it anyway. The Postal Service sets its shipping rates. Not you, not me, not LL Bean, not the phone company, not Joe's Car Wash, not Amazon.
The Postal Service sets its rates. As a business, which it is now, apparently, it needs to do so responsibly or it will go out of business. That is called "management".
And "management" is what this postal business is all about. Amazon isn't in charge of managing the Postal Service. The Postal Service is. That is the bottom line and it doesn't get any bottomer.
- and even if they had bargained responsibly for a higher shipping rate from Amazon, the Postal Service would still have found itself today to be shorthanded and awash with packages. A little more money from Amazon would not have led quickly into the better salaries, the larger workforce, the shorter routes, and the expanded facilities needed to run the new paradigm. The Postal Service is proving to be not the most nimble footed of businesses. And, again, that is management, not Amazon.
And the fix? Well, the fix, whatever it is, certainly is not in Amazon's hands.
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Post by John B on Dec 1, 2023 11:43:47 GMT -5
So, in your analogy, the Postal Service, the largest delivery service in the world, is some poor little widow dirt farmer who is being bullied by Black Bart, the evil owner of the DoubleDee Ranch? Poor little widow dirt farmer. Bad Black Bart rich powerful rancher. WTH? Outside of late night TV... Who sets the Postal Service shipping rates? The Postal Service does. Walk into the Post Office sometime and tell them you want them to ship your box of bricks to your cousin Ed in Arkansas for a $1.50 and they will tell you their rate for shipping that box is $12.00. You can bargain till the cops come to haul you away, but the truth is, the Postal Service sets their shipping rates. Not you. Not Amazon. It seems simple enough, but I will repeat it anyway. The Postal Service sets its shipping rates. Not you, not me, not LL Bean, not the phone company, not Joe's Car Wash, not Amazon. The Postal Service sets its rates. As a business, which it is now, apparently, it needs to do so responsibly or it will go out of business. That is called "management". And "management" is what this postal business is all about. Amazon isn't in charge of managing the Postal Service. The Postal Service is. That is the bottom line and it doesn't get any bottomer. - and even if they had bargained responsibly for a higher shipping rate from Amazon, the Postal Service would still have found itself today to be shorthanded and awash with packages. A little more money from Amazon would have led quickly into the better salaries, the larger workforce, the shorter routes, and the expanded facilities needed to run the new paradigm. The Postal Service is proving to be not the most nimble footed of businesses. And, again, that is management, not Amazon. And the fix? Well, the fix, whatever it is, certainly is not in Amazon's hands. That is a very nice, simple way of looking at things. I applaud your world view. Now Casper, please step away from the keyboard. I never said the fix was in Amazon's hands, except as "A Modest Proposal" (I trust Jonathan Swift has made it to ND). I'm saying they got a sweetheart deal because Congress has tied at least one hand behind the Post Office's back when it comes to actually charging the true cost of delivery. In an old joke, a lottery winner, when asked what they plan on doing, replies "I'll just keep farming until the winnings run out." The joke being that farming is a losing business/lifestyle, as if a farmer could never actually earn a profit. I know that is not the case, as I have worked with some who have done very well and some that never do. But the Post Office is prohibited from making a profit. It legally can't. BTW, I may be funning with you a bit. At least on the insults I've casually thrown.
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Post by epaul on Dec 1, 2023 12:04:52 GMT -5
All that is fine. I just tired of the whole blame Amazon nonsense going on in this thread. Amazon isn't the blame. Or the fix.
Blame those responsible and those who have the ability to fix the problem. Blame the Postal Service management, blame Congress, blame the voters. They are responsible for the situation the Postal Service is in. And the fix, whatever the fix may be, is in the hands of the Postal Service management, the Congress, and the voters.
Not Woke Amazon. (unless we decide to just turn the postal business over to them and their flying robots)
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Post by millring on Dec 1, 2023 12:24:55 GMT -5
Who sets the Postal Service shipping rates? The Postal Service does. You're kidding, right?
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Post by howard lee on Dec 1, 2023 12:31:33 GMT -5
I found this on the USPS website.
Oct. 6, 2023
U.S. Postal Service Proposes New Prices for 2024
New prices scheduled to take effect Jan. 21, 2024 Postal Service prices remain among the most affordable in the world First-Class Forever stamp will be 68 cents
WASHINGTON, DC — Today, the United States Postal Service filed notice with the Postal Regulatory Commission (PRC) of mailing services price changes to take effect Jan. 21, 2024. The new rates include a 2-cent increase in the price of a First-Class Mail Forever stamp, from 66 cents to 68 cents.
The proposed adjustments, approved by the governors of the Postal Service, would raise mailing services product prices approximately 2 percent.
(Click link above for price table.)
There will be no change to the additional-ounce price, which remains at 24 cents. The Postal Service is also seeking price adjustments for Special Services products including Certified Mail, Post Office Box rental fees, money order fees and the cost to purchase insurance when mailing an item.
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Post by majorminor on Dec 1, 2023 12:46:02 GMT -5
Terry's pic brought back a memory. This is me a few years back in North Dakota. And smiling believe it or not. As I recall it was that one week in Nodak where the sun comes out and the wind stops blowing. Right there before the ticks and the mosquitos get biblical. The plow guy kept hitting the old box with the grader so I got told to move it.
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Post by millring on Dec 1, 2023 12:58:11 GMT -5
I just tired of the whole blame Amazon You conservatives are all alike. Never met a corporation you didn't love. Next you'll be wanting to let them lobby.
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Post by epaul on Dec 1, 2023 17:29:55 GMT -5
Terry's pic brought back a memory. This is me a few years back in North Dakota... Damn, you have posted some pretty pictures, Steve, but this one is special! It takes my breath away. The vista, the grandeur, from that thistle and nice thick grass in the foreground to what looks adoringly enough like grain elevators off in the distance. Wow! In composition, it reminds of some of the better pieces I've seen from Don and Howard. (if only they had what you had here to work with)
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Post by drlj on Dec 1, 2023 18:58:29 GMT -5
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