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Post by John B on Dec 27, 2023 18:34:22 GMT -5
I'm always sad when I read these stories and listen to songs like that. I see what a difficult and random career music was for our generation; struggling and waiting for that Big Break. I saw Marshall's post on Millring's Danny O'Keefe post. It makes me wonder, how might this have changed over the decades? How easy or difficult, or random/non-random is a career in music? How might it have been harder (or easier) for boomers vs. generations before or since? |
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Post by aquaduct on Dec 27, 2023 19:23:58 GMT -5
My opinion of a career in music boils down to a career in music is great IF you've got a girlfriend who doesn't mind paying the bills you'll never be able to come close to paying. Having briefly flirted with the idea 40 years ago I learned pretty fast that I was better off getting a real job, marrying, and raising a family and only playing music if I could afford to not get paid for it. Goofing off basically instead of empty hope.
And from what I see these days, it's only gotten worse.
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Post by howard lee on Dec 27, 2023 19:33:40 GMT -5
Q: What do you call a guitar player who has broken up with his girlfriend?
A: Homeless.
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Post by Russell Letson on Dec 27, 2023 21:48:25 GMT -5
It ain't just the music biz. The arts in general do not offer "careers" in the sense of making a living wage, having security (health insurance, a decent place to live, some savings or a pension plan), or raising a family. We have known quite a few professional artists, mostly writers and musicians, and few of them have made comfortable livings through art alone--though many have had artistic careers, generally thanks to working spouses or day jobs that somehow accommodated their art. Writers seem to do better with the straight-job compromise, because it's possible to squeeze writing into an ordinary life. (Tougher for women when kids are part of the package.)
On the other hand, I've known quite a few musicians for whom it has been a decent second "career" in the sense of long-term activity and artistic accomplishment--and some of them even make decent second-job money.
When Cezarija was still teaching creative writing, she always warned her students (who generally thought they were going to be Stephen King or Nora Roberts) not to expect commercial success--you write because you can't not write. We both think that this remains the case even since the rise of the "independent" writer.
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Post by millring on Dec 27, 2023 23:08:38 GMT -5
Though we have no way of knowing how financially successful he has become, Josh Turner has shown that at least there are now ways around the gatekeepers.
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Post by james on Dec 27, 2023 23:20:47 GMT -5
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Post by coachdoc on Dec 27, 2023 23:52:34 GMT -5
I lived for 3 years off busking and performing. I kept myself fed and housed although marginally but adequately. I fondly remember those years but after 3 years of scraping by I returned to school and teaching guitar part time. Once I graduated college I started working as a nurse, added premed classes at school and talked my way into med school with help from physician friends who I met through my work as a nurse. It was not a traditional route to med school, but I had a few classmates who also took a twisty route through med school admission. I enjoyed every step of the way. PS. My undergrad degree is a bachelor of science in nursing. BSN.
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Post by Marshall on Dec 28, 2023 9:20:08 GMT -5
Though we have no way of knowing how financially successful he has become, Josh Turner has shown that at least there are now ways around the gatekeepers. The gatekeepers are having a rough time of it too. The economic model for music has shifted so much. People I know that are full time musicians do a slew of related things. Bruce Roper does guitar repair and lutherie as well as recording engineering. Others give lessons as well as write and perform. You can make some decent money in a wedding band for a while. But the stories of the Danny O'Keefe's of our generation always amaze me at how random success came and how difficult a struggle it was to find it. |
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Post by Marshall on Dec 28, 2023 9:21:32 GMT -5
The new gatekeepers are the Spotifys of the world. Reaping huge rewards off of other peoples creativity.
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Post by majorminor on Dec 28, 2023 10:16:11 GMT -5
The rare generational talent still usually finds a way to the top. As for the rest there's just too much content these days to be honest and the barriers to entry are gone. Based on seeing others do it you can probably get by doing music full time if you can network gigs, livestream those gigs for tips, teach in person and on line, and get some eyeballs on Youtube. You are probably working more hours than the average desk jockey and making less money with certainly less benefits. Don't do it for the riches. Do it for love of music and expression of your art. And the chicks.
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Post by John B on Dec 28, 2023 10:19:22 GMT -5
The rare generational talent still usually finds a way to the top. As for the rest there's just too much content these days to be honest and the barriers to entry are gone. Based on seeing others do it you can probably get by doing music full time if you can network gigs, livestream those gigs for tips, teach in person and on line, and get some eyeballs on Youtube. You are probably working more hours than the average desk jockey and making less money with certainly less benefits. Don't do it for the riches. Do it for love of music and expression of your art. And the chicks.  |
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Post by millring on Dec 28, 2023 15:37:13 GMT -5
It really is a discussion that interests me. I've asked the same question in a different way -- a way that may not sound related, but to me it is.
If Paul Simon never existed and someone today wrote "Sounds of Silence" for the first time, what are the chances we would ever hear it?
And (in another related subject) "Gatekeepers" isn't exactly fair or accurate. People and institutions that empowered and enriched themselves by promoting certain music and acts were, indeed, gatekeepers. And there's absolutely no doubt they kept us from hearing music that we would have actually preferred to some of what they offered us. On the other hand, there is a degree to which they could not have enriched or empowered themselves by offering what we were most likely to reject. It was in their best interest to find acts, writers, artists, performers, who had the goods that the public would most likely want to buy. Yes, they could and did influence public taste, but it remains unlikely that their influence could be total.
And the artists have always needed to:
1. Get a break (and that's why the trope that an artist should ONLY work for pay and not for exposure was at best a half-truth).
2. Be able to deliver when that break came.
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Post by t-bob on Dec 28, 2023 16:06:09 GMT -5
I'm not a professional musician. I listen music and play "pretty well".... It's really good for me therapy and some people like it and I don't even know (because most of the time I pay attention what I'm playing)
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Dub
Administrator
I'm gettin' so the past is the only thing I can remember.
Posts: 19,910 
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Post by Dub on Dec 28, 2023 17:08:07 GMT -5
Prior to recording and radio, the only ones making any money in music were publishers. When radio began airing live music shows, most of the acts were unpaid. There was a lot of competition for gigs playing on the radio without being paid. The radio exposure allowed artists to advertise their appearances and hawk their songbooks. Even on shows like the Opry, musicians got scale, not enough to buy fuel to get there if they were out of town.
Most acts being recorded for distribution were paid once for the session, if at all, and got no piece of record sales.
Being able to play at a virtuoso level might get one continuous studio work IF an inside contact liked the musician.
To be more than a journeyman, one has to provide a unique experience for the listener and cater to an audience large enough to matter. Once all of that is in place, one might get noticed.
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Post by RickW on Dec 28, 2023 20:08:31 GMT -5
I knew two people who made a living at music. One was an old friend from band days, determined as hell, who clawed and scratched his way through music biz. Various bands that started to well, and he either left them or they died. He started a celtic music school, and ran that for 15+ years and made money, and co taught a course at a university here on physics and music. Never wealthy, and he made a ton of money from his parent’s house when they passed away, which has made retirement easier.
And then there was Bryan Adams.
Those two career paths tell me a lot.
One thing I figured out, to go alongside what Peter said, which was all the same conclusions I came to — along with that, I didn’t have the necessary balls. I didn’t believe in myself enough, and I didn’t have the push, the drive. I would never have walked away from my friends if an better opportunity arose. I would never have just walked up to people better placed than me and asked for things from them. Bryan Adams did that.
God knows where life would have taken my if I tried. I can’t say I’m displeased, or regretful, but every now and then I wonder….
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Post by Hobson on Dec 29, 2023 13:13:24 GMT -5
It's not just a matter of talent and drive or connections and luck. It's being willing to live the lifestyle. Being on the road, keeping strange hours, eating unhealthy food, no time with your family if you even have one, trusting a whole bunch of other people to do what they're supposed to do, lacking a steady income.
My choir director is making a living from music. He has at least 4 steady jobs directing and teaching. He also plays keyboard at a couple of theaters. With a masters degree in music he'll probably never be rich or famous. There are so many very talented people who are just surviving. And that goes for other kinds of artists too. Painters, actors, potters...
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Post by RickW on Dec 29, 2023 14:20:18 GMT -5
Though we have no way of knowing how financially successful he has become, Josh Turner has shown that at least there are now ways around the gatekeepers. There was a bit of a golden time for small acoustic acts to do their own recording and CD distribution at their concerts. Lots of folks were touring around making money that way. WIth the death of CDs, it’s become harder again. If anything, even though it’s obviously still possible, it’s definitely grown harder again. But that, as you know all too well, is the life of the creative entrepeneur. You never quite know when it’s all going to get overturned. |
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Post by t-bob on Dec 29, 2023 14:21:26 GMT -5
I have a lot of my friends/acquaintances/souls - professional writers, artists, actors, musicians..... myriad
NYC, Wilton CT, Washington, Soundhole Forum and my present Marin County
....lucky man.....
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