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Post by John B on Jan 24, 2024 8:26:24 GMT -5
I'd like someone my age. Seriously. George W Bush was 54 when he became President; Barack Obama 47, Bill Clinton 46. Heck, George HW Bush was "only" 64. Seriously (again), why have the two major parties pinned their hopes on two guys who are almost the same age as my dad? No offense to those who are of a similar age, because even when I poke fun at my relative youth I value the friendship of everyone on this forum. But my dad has said it's ridiculous that we're expecting guys his age to deal with what should be a 24/7 job. Not the least of which, at some point I think everyone gets to a point in their life when they don't want to deal with bullshit, so they don't. The job of President has a lot of bullshit to be dealt with.
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Post by Cornflake on Jan 24, 2024 8:48:30 GMT -5
John B, I think there's a trade-off. With lots of exceptions, the folks I know in their late 70s-early 80s are wiser than the folks I know in their early 60s. Biden brings a lot of experience to bear on the job and that's a good thing. From what I've heard and read, he's still pretty sharp, though maybe not quite as quick as he was a decade back. I'm not either.
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Post by John B on Jan 24, 2024 8:57:57 GMT -5
Don, I think having those folks in their late 70's-early 80s as advisors is a fantastic idea, because that wisdom is hard-earned. But those same folks, when asked a question, have the freedom to say, "yeah, not dealing with that bullshit. That's all you." And also the freedom to say, "this shit can wait until tomorrow." President, not so much.
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Post by theevan on Jan 24, 2024 11:44:13 GMT -5
…prefer Haley to Hillary as first female Prez? I wouldn't be thrilled about voting for either warmonger.
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Post by Russell Letson on Jan 24, 2024 13:41:50 GMT -5
Unlike the demented demagogue Trump and his deluded supporters, Hillary Clinton accepted defeat and didn't seek the overthrow of a democratically elected Govt. Which is definitely to her credit. Maybe it's time to move on. Trump did, too. That silly rant is just a progressive fever dream. And from a foreigner to boot. Kind of sums up Trump's support quite nicely. If "Trump did, too" refers to accepting the results of the 2020 election, then one has to deal with statements he has been making at his rallies right along--including in the speech he made after actually winning the New Hampshire primary. “It was a rigged election,” he proclaimed from the podium. And, to loud applause, “the radical left Democrats rigged the presidential election of 2020, and we’re not letting them rig the presidential election of 2024.”
. . . Mr. Trump has preferred large rallies, where he continues to spread the disproven charges of a stolen election.
“There are a lot of bad things going on with these elections,” he said in Concord. “They want to cheat.”
He complained that prosecutors went after those who peddled claims of voter fraud. “They don’t search for the people who rigged the election, and we know who they are,” he said.
“We won twice by the way, and we did much better the second time,” he said.
www.post-gazette.com/news/politics-state/2024/01/22/trump-biden-2024-presidential-elelction-new-hampshire-primary/stories/202401220156It's not hard to confirm the content of Trump's speeches at rallies--many of them are available via C-SPAN, and a couple of minutes of Googling turned up a transcript of a speech in Sioux City, IA in which he said, "I got indicted because I said we had a rigged election, and it turned out I was right. It was rigged much worse than anybody thought." And "The radical left Democrats rigged the presidential election in 2020, and we’re not going to allow them to rig the presidential election in 2024. Not going to allow that." www.rev.com/blog/transcripts/donald-trump-election-campaign-rally-in-sioux-center-iowa-transcriptIn C-SPAN video of Trump's New Hampshire victory speech (just after the 6-minute mark), after his false claim that NH allowed Democrats to vote in the GOP primary, he says, "If you remember, we won in 2016 and if you really remember, we also won in 2020. and we did much better in 2020 than we did in 2016." www.c-span.org/video/?533126-1/donald-trump-hampshire-primary-night-remarksThe snotty "and from a foreigner to boot" is just the cherry on top of this obvious refusal to face easily researched facts.
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Post by epaul on Jan 24, 2024 14:02:54 GMT -5
I'm an outlier, I guess.
As long as the game is "what if", personally, I wish Hillary had gotten the nod in 08 rather than Obama. Obama would have been fine as a VP in Hillary’s administration; allowed to season. But, at the time, and looking back in make believe, in my opinion, 08 was Hillary's time and she would have been an excellent president.
I consider myself a pragmatist (ok, so do we all) and the single best word I can come up with to describe Hillary is "pragmatic".
("bitch" really isn't specific, it's just an emotive term that often as not just reflects some personal issue held by the speaker of the term).
I am pragmatic on energy. I do think global warming is an issue to be addressed. But, I also believe the current "green" solutions, while a help (and, sometimes, an impediment), are nowhere near ready to carry the load. Not now, at least. And now can a pretty long time.
Hillary understood this clearly. I distinctly recall Hillary getting booed by a convention hall filled with Democrats because she said, in no uncertain terms, that fossil fuels, particularly natural gas, would be needed as a baseline energy source for at least the next 30 or so years (a bridge to the future, as she put it).
Ok, so such was obvious to many at the time, but her view certainly wasn't appreciated by that roomful of booing Democrats. Yet Hillary didn't wimp out and talk "green, green, green" to appease the party enthusiasts, she was consistent in her view that while "green" should be, and needed to be, developed, fossil fuels would be needed both as a reliable baseline for the now and as a bridge to an as yet unknown future. And she continued to state that belief, to her detriment as it turned out, in front of crowds that weren't appreciative of that viewpoint.
And not just natural gas, Hillary believed nuclear had a role to play and supported the development of new generation nuke power plants (not a popular position at all in the party). And on a early trip to North Dakota speaking at the EERC (where wife works), she even called ND's coal a needed resource for the area and to continue working to isolate the CO2 and safely sequester it (understanding a developing technology no one else running was even aware of).
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Post by epaul on Jan 24, 2024 14:14:21 GMT -5
And Hillary understood the challenge of making affordable health care available to all. And, after the Clinton Health Care plan she tried shepherd though congress in 93 blew up in her face, she became a pragmatist on health care as well, and began speaking of implementing a gradualist approach via expansion of the existing Medicare and Medicaid programs.
(an approach I firmly believe would have been simpler, cheaper, and having a better long term outcome than Obama Care's approach of just insuring a narrow slice of the population by dumping gobs of subsidy money into the existing hodgepodge of providers, plans, systems, and outcomes firmly in place… for perpetuity?
And globally, Hillary understood Putin to be the grasping thug that he is. Presciently, she clearly saw the risks involved with Europe’s increasing reliance on Russian gas and strongly advocated the development of liquefied natural gas and the infrastructure needed to deliver it. Liquefied natural gas is now finally starting to be a going deal, but it would have being going sooner and more effectively with Hillary in charge. But, more importantly, her advocacy of the need to develop liquefied natural gas for export at a time when no one else running was even aware of it, or if aware it, opposed to it because it wasn’t a windmill, is proof positive of her clear-minded pragmatism.
In short, in this turn-back-the-clock game, I wish Hillary had gotten in instead of Obama. And if Obama had followed Hillary, there is no Trump to be seen or heard from in any way that matters.
(and while I’m not a feminist, like Bill and Marty, I do believe that if Hillary had been a man instead of a woman, there would have been an entirely different, and more positive, batch of adjectives used to describe her personality)
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Post by epaul on Jan 24, 2024 14:21:47 GMT -5
Hillary was/is smart, informed, and pragmatic. That’s my trinity when it comes to politics.
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Post by Marshall on Jan 24, 2024 14:38:37 GMT -5
I'm an outlier, I guess. As long as the game is "what if", personally, I wish Hillary had gotten the nod in 08 rather than Obama. Obama would have been fine as a VP in Hillary’s administration; allowed to season. But, at the time, and looking back in make believe, in my opinion, 08 was Hillary's time and she would have been an excellent president. I tend to agree. That was her time. And we shoulda got Colin Powel instead of GWB. Lotsa missed opportunities.
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Post by coachdoc on Jan 24, 2024 16:03:17 GMT -5
Trump did, too. That silly rant is just a progressive fever dream. And from a foreigner to boot. Kind of sums up Trump's support quite nicely. If "Trump did, too" refers to accepting the results of the 2020 election, then one has to deal with statements he has been making at his rallies right along--including in the speech he made after actually winning the New Hampshire primary. “It was a rigged election,” he proclaimed from the podium. And, to loud applause, “the radical left Democrats rigged the presidential election of 2020, and we’re not letting them rig the presidential election of 2024.”
. . . Mr. Trump has preferred large rallies, where he continues to spread the disproven charges of a stolen election.
“There are a lot of bad things going on with these elections,” he said in Concord. “They want to cheat.”
He complained that prosecutors went after those who peddled claims of voter fraud. “They don’t search for the people who rigged the election, and we know who they are,” he said.
“We won twice by the way, and we did much better the second time,” he said.
www.post-gazette.com/news/politics-state/2024/01/22/trump-biden-2024-presidential-elelction-new-hampshire-primary/stories/202401220156It's not hard to confirm the content of Trump's speeches at rallies--many of them are available via C-SPAN, and a couple of minutes of Googling turned up a transcript of a speech in Sioux City, IA in which he said, "I got indicted because I said we had a rigged election, and it turned out I was right. It was rigged much worse than anybody thought." And "The radical left Democrats rigged the presidential election in 2020, and we’re not going to allow them to rig the presidential election in 2024. Not going to allow that." www.rev.com/blog/transcripts/donald-trump-election-campaign-rally-in-sioux-center-iowa-transcriptIn C-SPAN video of Trump's New Hampshire victory speech (just after the 6-minute mark), after his false claim that NH allowed Democrats to vote in the GOP primary, he says, "If you remember, we won in 2016 and if you really remember, we also won in 2020. and we did much better in 2020 than we did in 2016." www.c-span.org/video/?533126-1/donald-trump-hampshire-primary-night-remarksThe snotty "and from a foreigner to boot" is just the cherry on top of this obvious refusal to face easily researched facts. One of the cooler and weirder voting anomalies in NH you can walk into the polls as a Dem and change your affiliation as you sign in. Walk in a Dem, change your affiliation to Repub and on the way out switch back to Dem. Put in whatever affiliation you want at any stage you want til you have voted. Live Free or Die, folks.
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Post by Russell Letson on Jan 24, 2024 17:34:13 GMT -5
One of the cooler and weirder voting anomalies in NH you can walk into the polls as a Dem and change your affiliation as you sign in. Walk in a Dem, change your affiliation to Repub and on the way out switch back to Dem. Put in whatever affiliation you want at any stage you want til you have voted. Live Free or Die, folks. Am I misunderstanding this, then? You may change your party affiliation with the clerk of the town or city where you are domiciled or at any scheduled meeting of the supervisors of the checklist except for during the period of time between the first day of the filing period for the primary election and/or the presidential primary election and the date of the primary election itself. You will be required to choose either a Democratic or Republican ballot when you go to vote. The last day a registered voter can change their party affiliation before the 2024 Presidential Primary is October 6, 2023. The last day a registered voter can change their party affiliation before the 2024 State Primary is June 4, 2024. Supervisors of the checklist are required to meet on that day at least between 7:00-7:30 p.m. to accept party changes. www.sos.nh.gov/elections/frequently-asked-questions/voting-party-primaries
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Post by brucemacneill on Jan 24, 2024 17:43:51 GMT -5
One of the cooler and weirder voting anomalies in NH you can walk into the polls as a Dem and change your affiliation as you sign in. Walk in a Dem, change your affiliation to Repub and on the way out switch back to Dem. Put in whatever affiliation you want at any stage you want til you have voted. Live Free or Die, folks. Am I misunderstanding this, then? You may change your party affiliation with the clerk of the town or city where you are domiciled or at any scheduled meeting of the supervisors of the checklist except for during the period of time between the first day of the filing period for the primary election and/or the presidential primary election and the date of the primary election itself. You will be required to choose either a Democratic or Republican ballot when you go to vote. The last day a registered voter can change their party affiliation before the 2024 Presidential Primary is October 6, 2023. The last day a registered voter can change their party affiliation before the 2024 State Primary is June 4, 2024. Supervisors of the checklist are required to meet on that day at least between 7:00-7:30 p.m. to accept party changes. www.sos.nh.gov/elections/frequently-asked-questions/voting-party-primariesYes, Russel, you're wrong. They let the Democrats vote on the Republican ballot. Democrats like to change the rules at will. That's how Biden got elected.
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Post by james on Jan 24, 2024 17:45:04 GMT -5
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Post by Russell Letson on Jan 24, 2024 17:56:23 GMT -5
Yes, Russel, you're wrong. They let the Democrats vote on the Republican ballot. Democrats like to change the rules at will. That's how Biden got elected. Any evidence in support of any of these claims is welcome. And "evidence" explicitly excludes any unsupported assertions from Trump or his campaign. As far as I can tell from the official website of New Hampshire's Secretary of State, allowing a registered party member to vote in the opposing party's primary is against the law. Unaffiliated voters can declare for a party at the polling place, at which point they are affiliated. And they can change back to unaffiliated status afterward. But cross-party voting is not allowed. So--did significant numbers of poll workers break the rules during the primary and allow cross-party voting? Evidence (as distinct from mere assertion) would be nice.
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Post by brucemacneill on Jan 24, 2024 18:47:03 GMT -5
"to vote in the opposing party's primary is against the law. Unaffiliated voters can declare for a party at the polling place, at which point they are affiliated"
I rest my case.
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Would you
Jan 24, 2024 20:18:30 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by coachdoc on Jan 24, 2024 20:18:30 GMT -5
Geez, Russ and Bruce. All I know is one year I walked into the town hall to vote, change my affiliation to Democrat, voted in the Democratic primary and changed back to independent, voted and ate the home baked chocolate chip cookie they sold me(to support the daycare in town).
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Post by aquaduct on Jan 24, 2024 22:11:38 GMT -5
Trump did, too. That silly rant is just a progressive fever dream. And from a foreigner to boot. Kind of sums up Trump's support quite nicely. If "Trump did, too" refers to accepting the results of the 2020 election, then one has to deal with statements he has been making at his rallies right along--including in the speech he made after actually winning the New Hampshire primary. “It was a rigged election,” he proclaimed from the podium. And, to loud applause, “the radical left Democrats rigged the presidential election of 2020, and we’re not letting them rig the presidential election of 2024.”
. . . Mr. Trump has preferred large rallies, where he continues to spread the disproven charges of a stolen election.
“There are a lot of bad things going on with these elections,” he said in Concord. “They want to cheat.”
He complained that prosecutors went after those who peddled claims of voter fraud. “They don’t search for the people who rigged the election, and we know who they are,” he said.
“We won twice by the way, and we did much better the second time,” he said.
www.post-gazette.com/news/politics-state/2024/01/22/trump-biden-2024-presidential-elelction-new-hampshire-primary/stories/202401220156It's not hard to confirm the content of Trump's speeches at rallies--many of them are available via C-SPAN, and a couple of minutes of Googling turned up a transcript of a speech in Sioux City, IA in which he said, "I got indicted because I said we had a rigged election, and it turned out I was right. It was rigged much worse than anybody thought." And "The radical left Democrats rigged the presidential election in 2020, and we’re not going to allow them to rig the presidential election in 2024. Not going to allow that." www.rev.com/blog/transcripts/donald-trump-election-campaign-rally-in-sioux-center-iowa-transcriptIn C-SPAN video of Trump's New Hampshire victory speech (just after the 6-minute mark), after his false claim that NH allowed Democrats to vote in the GOP primary, he says, "If you remember, we won in 2016 and if you really remember, we also won in 2020. and we did much better in 2020 than we did in 2016." www.c-span.org/video/?533126-1/donald-trump-hampshire-primary-night-remarksThe snotty "and from a foreigner to boot" is just the cherry on top of this obvious refusal to face easily researched facts. The contested 2020 vote came down to 6 voting districts. None of which were audited or thoroughly investigated by anyone impartial. Lawsuits were dismissed routinely, not for findings of fact, but rather for procedural errors (filed too early, filed too late, etc.). In short, suspicions have never been put to bed in an open and transparent way. Never. And now some 1000 people have been arrested and imprisoned indefinitely for the Jan. 6 "insurrection" which in reality was a minor riot, unfortunate but completely overblown. Particularly when compared to the BLM burning down of cities like Minneapolis that I can't recall many people being arrested at all. The old saw about being paranoid doesn't mean they really aren't out to get you applies in full force here. How do you know a liberal or Democrat is lying? Their mouth is moving. When the progressive fascists drop the anti-Trump supporter lies, insults, and attacks, including their media stooges, I'll be happy to go back to guardedly trusting them. I wouldn't count on that happening any time soon. You broke it, you bought it. Have fun with it.
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Post by Russell Letson on Jan 25, 2024 0:02:01 GMT -5
Geez, Russ and Bruce. All I know is one year I walked into the town hall to vote, change my affiliation to Democrat, voted in the Democratic primary and changed back to independent, voted and ate the home baked chocolate chip cookie they sold me(to support the daycare in town). Doc, with respect, that law, according to the FAQ I cited, is exactly what is allowed in New Hampshire for unaffiliated voters. (Except for the part where you seem to have voted twice before eating the cookie.) An undeclared voter may vote in a state primary or a presidential primary. You will be required to choose either a Democratic or Republican ballot when you go to vote.
. . . .
When you vote on a party ballot in a state or presidential primary, you become a registered member of that party unless you fill out a card or sign a list to return to undeclared status with the supervisors of the checklist before leaving the polling place. That is quite distinct from allowing cross-party voting or day-of party-switching in a primary. Party affiliation can only be changed before the specified deadlines--which for this Presidential primary cycle was October 6, 2023. Unaffiliated status is a kind of wild card, but affiliated voters must follow suit (to continue the card-playing metaphor). (Unless my reading skills have deserted me.)
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Post by Russell Letson on Jan 25, 2024 0:37:49 GMT -5
Peter: First, I take "Trump did too" to refer to the remark that "Hillary Clinton accepted defeat." And since Trump continues to claim that the election was "rigged," I stand by my post.
Second, if you want your claims about the 2020 election results taken seriously, you need to point to the evidence--to specify which six districts were the unexamined but crucial ones; and you need to provide links or references that will allow that claim to be examined. I have Googled around and have yet to find that particular argument. If it's that specific, I would think that it would show up in a coherent, focused form somewhere. It also suggests a high degree of leverage--six districts tipping the Electoral College results. I suppose it's numerically possible, but I would also suppose that someone would have noticed it by now. Certainly Trump's EC win (and popular-vote loss) was the result of leverage, as he won crucial states.
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Post by howard lee on Jan 25, 2024 6:39:26 GMT -5
The landscape would be a lot different today if Robert Kennedy hadn't been assassinated by the Republicans.
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