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Post by howard lee on Mar 30, 2024 9:53:16 GMT -5
[...] Still, we are all far more nuanced in our views than the study allowed for.
I agree.
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Post by epaul on Mar 30, 2024 10:08:40 GMT -5
I scored as indolent and very satisfied. Pretty much nailed me.
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Post by aquaduct on Mar 30, 2024 10:46:00 GMT -5
"I like politicians who are at least willing to consider compromise. there are few of those." I agree on both counts. Unfortunately, many voters see a willingness to compromise as a lack of principle that merits removal from office. I'd disagree. I'd say our willingness to compromise has led us to a political quagmire from which has emerged a thoroughly out of control Federal government. In my view compromise is thoroughly overrated. Our system is supposed to make sure that things that are not worth actually doing don't get done. Things that are worth doing should take relatively little compromise.
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Post by millring on Mar 30, 2024 18:08:01 GMT -5
I suspect everyone for whom "willing to compromise" is the high water mark of integrity and political worthiness means they expect that compromise to come from those they disagree with, not the ones carrying their banner.
But even if they allow as how their guy should maybe compromise sometimes too, it's because they understand that by its very nature, cultural and political progressivism still advances with every compromise. And anything like "conservative" or "principled" loses. Like a ratchet wrench it turns the progressive bolt that then holds steady with each compromising backturn of the handle -- that then returns to the same place -- no lost ground -- with a fresh purchase ....AND (and this is a big one) to a now weakened opponent who has proven by the compromise that the principle(s) he stood for meant nothing.
"...we've already established that. Now we're just haggling over price."
Also, history tells us that Galileo and the Holy Catholic Church decided long ago to take the progressive's advice. Rather than hash out the fact or fiction of earth centered vs. sun centered solar system, they compromised. And that, if you ever wondered, is why the sun revolves around the earth half the year, and the earth revolves around the sun the other half. They switch places at the equinoxes.
Being willing to compromise seems so very reasonable. But the demand to do so is a political bludgeon -- the reasonable sound of which is merely preying on those unthoughtful enough to imagine no principle worth fighting for, or rather -- since it is the very nature of the demand to compromise -- no demand too outrageous to stand ones ground against.
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Post by millring on Mar 30, 2024 18:13:25 GMT -5
The Republicans didn't want a cat. The Democratics did. So they compromised and got a cat.
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Post by aquaduct on Mar 30, 2024 20:35:45 GMT -5
Compromise simply means that the outcome sucks for everybody involved.
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Post by howard lee on Mar 30, 2024 21:25:12 GMT -5
Compromise simply means that the outcome sucks for everybody involved.
Or it's the closest thing to the best solution that everyone can live with.
A pessimist says the glass is half empty. An optimist says the glass is half full. An engineer says the glass is twice as large as it needs to be.
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Post by aquaduct on Mar 30, 2024 21:40:13 GMT -5
Compromise simply means that the outcome sucks for everybody involved. Or it's the closest thing to the best solution that everyone can live with. A pessimist says the glass is half empty. An optimist says the glass is half full. An engineer says the glass is twice as large as it needs to be.
But still not even close to the best solution.
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Post by John B on Mar 30, 2024 22:04:04 GMT -5
Or it's the closest thing to the best solution that everyone can live with. A pessimist says the glass is half empty. An optimist says the glass is half full. An engineer says the glass is twice as large as it needs to be.
But still not even close to the best solution. The best for who?
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Dub
Administrator
I'm gettin' so the past is the only thing I can remember.
Posts: 19,904
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Post by Dub on Mar 30, 2024 22:34:15 GMT -5
But still not even close to the best solution. The best for who? <whom>
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Post by John B on Mar 30, 2024 22:42:43 GMT -5
Sorry. Whom best for who?
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Post by millring on Mar 31, 2024 8:00:19 GMT -5
What do you wish the Democrats would compromise on?
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Dub
Administrator
I'm gettin' so the past is the only thing I can remember.
Posts: 19,904
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Post by Dub on Mar 31, 2024 10:41:33 GMT -5
What do you wish the Democrats would compromise on? I have a long list of things I’d like the Dems to quit doing and another list of things I’d like them to start doing. I even have things the GOP used to favor that I wish the Dems would adopt. If by “compromise” you mean adopt things from the current GOP platform, I’m not even sure what that is. The last official platform they espoused was “Whatever Donald Wants.”
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Post by millring on Mar 31, 2024 11:04:55 GMT -5
What do you wish the Democrats would compromise on? I have a long list of things I’d like the Dems to quit doing and another list of things I’d like them to start doing. I even have things the GOP used to favor that I wish the Dems would adopt. If by “compromise” you mean adopt things from the current GOP platform, I’m not even sure what that is. The last official platform they espoused was “Whatever Donald Wants.” Well, you didn't say you wished for more compromise. If you had, I'd just observe that you just confirmed my point -- nobody is asking Democrats to compromise. Why would they? We instinctively understand that compromise is by its very nature progressive. It's merely patient progress that then virtue signals its beneficence by claiming the mantle of "reasonable". Everyone else is an extremist. Everyone else is authoritarian.
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Post by John B on Mar 31, 2024 11:18:36 GMT -5
I have a long list of things I’d like the Dems to quit doing and another list of things I’d like them to start doing. I even have things the GOP used to favor that I wish the Dems would adopt. If by “compromise” you mean adopt things from the current GOP platform, I’m not even sure what that is. The last official platform they espoused was “Whatever Donald Wants.” Well, you didn't say you wished for more compromise. If you had, I'd just observe that you just confirmed my point -- nobody is asking Democrats to compromise. Why would they? We instinctively understand that compromise is by its very nature progressive. It's merely patient progress that then virtue signals its beneficence by claiming the mantle of "reasonable". Everyone else is an extremist. Everyone else is authoritarian. Your question is too vague and open-ended. What do you wish Republicans would compromise on? If your answer is "all Republicans do is compromise" that's not a good answer. What compromises do you wish Democrats would make?
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Post by howard lee on Mar 31, 2024 12:30:51 GMT -5
Or it's the closest thing to the best solution that everyone can live with. A pessimist says the glass is half empty. An optimist says the glass is half full. An engineer says the glass is twice as large as it needs to be.
But still not even close to the best solution.
I am willing to agree to disagree with you, Peter. I think compromise is closer to the best (better?) solution than you think it is. Everyone makes sacrifices, but also make progress.
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Post by millring on Mar 31, 2024 12:39:27 GMT -5
What compromises do you wish Democrats would make? I'm not asking them to. That's the point. Nobody is asking them to. I'm not because I don't think that compromise (when demanded of the current political climate) is asking for solutions. It is asking for progress. Compromise is a progressive strategy. By definition, every compromise leads to progress. And Democrats aren't asking for their politicians to compromise. They want THEM to stand on the principles they elected them to stand on.
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Post by millring on Mar 31, 2024 12:40:34 GMT -5
Everyone makes sacrifices, but also make progress.
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Post by howard lee on Mar 31, 2024 12:56:48 GMT -5
Everyone makes sacrifices, but also make progress.
Even if it's in fits and starts. 😉
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Post by John B on Mar 31, 2024 13:06:03 GMT -5
What compromises do you wish Democrats would make? I'm not asking them to. That's the point. Nobody is asking them to. I'm not because I don't think that compromise (when demanded of the current political climate) is asking for solutions. It is asking for progress. Compromise is a progressive strategy. By definition, every compromise leads to progress. And Democrats aren't asking for their politicians to compromise. They want THEM to stand on the principles they elected them to stand on. I think every Republican bill asks compromises of Democrats. Compromise is what we ask of those with different objectives and viewpoints. It's what we ask of others, to see things our way, do things our way.
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