Here I was feeling cranky...

[Cornflake]

And I found a piece where someone was accurately identifying what was making me cranky. Here's a gift link. (You've probably had better gifts but this is what I have to offer.)

www.nytimes.com/2024/04/25/opinion/oppression-victim-offensive.html?unlocked_article_code=1.nE0.7ED2.3eHf-IUi7aak&smid=url-share

[Hobson]

A good article that I'll have to read again.

Yesterday on FB somebody posted a quote that said conservatives don't care about people. I usually don't reply to such obvious generalizations, but I couldn't help myself.

[John B]

Something I thought was relevant to trying to understand what's going on in the US, from the NYT morning e-mail.

Arnold Kling, an economist, published a book a decade ago [The Three Languages of Politics] that offered a way to think about the core difference between progressives and conservatives. Progressives, Kling wrote, see the world as a struggle between the oppressor and the oppressed, and they try to help the oppressed. Conservatives see the world as a struggle between civilization and barbarism — between order and chaos — and they try to protect civilization.

Like many frameworks, Kling’s is a simplification, and it’s easy to find exceptions. But his book has been influential because the framework often sheds light on political arguments.

So I might track down the book, even though it was written by an economist . How does one help the oppressed while protecting civilization, both worthy concepts?

[Rob Hanesworth]

Apr 25, 2024 9:44:53 GMT -5 John B said:

Something I thought was relevant to trying to understand what's going on in the US, from the NYT morning e-mail.

Arnold Kling, an economist, published a book a decade ago [The Three Languages of Politics] that offered a way to think about the core difference between progressives and conservatives. Progressives, Kling wrote, see the world as a struggle between the oppressor and the oppressed, and they try to help the oppressed. Conservatives see the world as a struggle between civilization and barbarism — between order and chaos — and they try to protect civilization.

Like many frameworks, Kling’s is a simplification, and it’s easy to find exceptions. But his book has been influential because the framework often sheds light on political arguments.

So I might track down the book, even though it was written by an economist . How does one help the oppressed while protecting civilization, both worthy concepts?

How does helping the oppressed threaten civilization?

[John B]

Apr 25, 2024 10:59:38 GMT -5 Rob Hanesworth said:

Apr 25, 2024 9:44:53 GMT -5 John B said:

Something I thought was relevant to trying to understand what's going on in the US, from the NYT morning e-mail.

So I might track down the book, even though it was written by an economist . How does one help the oppressed while protecting civilization, both worthy concepts?

How does helping the oppressed threaten civilization?

Grossly simplified, it does not. The rest of that part of the e-mail was applying the "helping the oppressed/protecting civilization" lens to recent college campus protests.

And by the way, how Progressive of you to pose the question

[james]

Pamela Paul's vapid blather makes me a bit cranky.

Edit - My disdain for Ms.Paul's column may be slightly influenced by my lingering severe irritation with some of her previous output. 

Thanks for the gift link though. Always appreciated! 

[Cosmic Wonder]

Apr 25, 2024 9:36:18 GMT -5 Hobson said:

A good article that I'll have to read again.

Yesterday on FB somebody posted a quote that said conservatives don't care about people. I usually don't reply to such…

That’s because conservatives don’t care about people. 🤣😂😁

Mike

[millring]

www.firstthings.com/article/2023/03/cursed-by-the-boomers?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTAAAR2YnODtsYJM_hUaVC8YYNImCk0tUs1a7tyryFcBzkqQMin1st4fGe1DDik_aem_AX_85Wlio9EjuGbr6jKqu972PnipF6u-xIWBBfH6GbawfQpFGBmu63HCSkeULP86Y_nSlsdk8tHu-yj9hmYDpE2X

[Cornflake]

"Pamela Paul's vapid blather makes me a bit cranky.

Edit - My disdain for Ms.Paul's column may be slightly influenced by my lingering severe irritation with some of her previous output."

I'd never heard of her. She mentions Frank Bruni's new book on this subject, which has also been mentioned and praised by Gail Collins and Bret Stephens, and I suspect Bruni's book had a lot of influence on her piece. I may need to read it, even though it would probably depress me.

[TKennedy]

Folks that make a living pontificating about social/political topics and festering anxiety amongst their audiences without offering any concrete solutions and with no real responsibility for their opinions have always annoyed me a bit.

I remember taking a case to the OR at midnight or the early AM and walking through the ER waiting room where the TV was tuned to some late night talk show or news channel and some dude was babbling and probably being paid handsomely. I thought "man, I sure chose the wrong gig!"

All we can really change is the way we interact with the world in our little sphere of influence. If we can pull that off in a way that makes someone's day a little better for having encountered us we've done a lot. Not easy but a noble work in progress eh?

[millring]

Yet another take on current day cynicism. www.firstthings.com/article/1999/02/002-talking-to-generation-x

We’ve never been proud to be Americans—our political memory stretches back only as far as Vietnam, Watergate, and Reaganomics. Our parents left religion and, perhaps not coincidentally, each other in unprecedented numbers. Failed ideologies were mother’s milk to us: love didn’t save the world, the Age of Aquarius brought no peace, sexual liberation brought us AIDS and legions of fatherless children, Marxism collapsed. We can’t even imagine a world of cultural or national unity; our world is more like a tattered patchwork quilt. We have every little inconsequential thing, Nintendo 64s and homepages and cell phones, but not one important thing to believe in.

[John B]

Apr 28, 2024 9:19:11 GMT -5 millring said:

Yet another take on current day cynicism. www.firstthings.com/article/1999/02/002-talking-to-generation-x

We’ve never been proud to be Americans—our political memory stretches back only as far as Vietnam, Watergate, and Reaganomics. Our parents left religion and, perhaps not coincidentally, each other in unprecedented numbers. Failed ideologies were mother’s milk to us: love didn’t save the world, the Age of Aquarius brought no peace, sexual liberation brought us AIDS and legions of fatherless children, Marxism collapsed. We can’t even imagine a world of cultural or national unity; our world is more like a tattered patchwork quilt. We have every little inconsequential thing, Nintendo 64s and homepages and cell phones, but not one important thing to believe in.

An interesting take, because it's aimed at 30-year-old me. 25 years after publication, does it still apply to my generation, the two after it, or all three?

[TKennedy]

I came of age just before all that hippy stuff so I think my values were more in line with parents. They evolved based on life experiences but I did not have adulthood forced on me the way those that came of age during the depression and the global strife that followed did.

We have a tendency to cast that era as kind of a utopia for America and it probably was if you were a white Christian male. Women, and minorities might have a different take.

It does seem that with the current status of evolution towards adulthood it may not be too long before it becomes the new minority

[millring]

Apr 28, 2024 10:41:03 GMT -5 John B said:

Apr 28, 2024 9:19:11 GMT -5 millring said:

Yet another take on current day cynicism. www.firstthings.com/article/1999/02/002-talking-to-generation-x

An interesting take, because it's aimed at 30-year-old me. 25 years after publication, does it still apply to my generation, the two after it, or all three?

More than that, it was prescient. The church, of course, stayed its course (the one she described) and things went from bad to worse (in terms of church attendance). There's a new book out "The Great Dechurching" that is saying that the past decade or so has been the largest demographic/religious shift in our history with millions leaving church, churches closing their doors forever, and the smallest minority in our history still attending church. We are most definitely living in a post-Christian world. And the majority not only don't miss it, they say "good riddance".

[coachdoc]

I’m still living in s Christian world.

[Marshall]

Apr 28, 2024 15:17:49 GMT -5 millring said:

Apr 28, 2024 10:41:03 GMT -5 John B said:

An interesting take, because it's aimed at 30-year-old me. 25 years after publication, does it still apply to my generation, the two after it, or all three?

More than that, it was prescient. The church, of course, stayed its course (the one she described) and things went from bad to worse (in terms of church attendance). There's a new book out "The Great Dechurching" that is saying that the past decade or so has been the largest demographic/religious shift in our history with millions leaving church, churches closing their doors forever, and the smallest minority in our history still attending church. We are most definitely living in a post-Christian world. And the majority not only don't miss it, they say "good riddance".

Our church is just starting a Capitol Campaign to raise money for a new roof and cosmetic improvements that will make it more desirable to young families. I’m thinking it’s an exercise in futility. And a darn expensive gamble.

I’m more of an ilk to contribute to Drs Without Borders, or World Central Kitchen. These are people that are doing good for people in need in the world.

I really don’t see how “church” speaks to many young people. We lost a generation. Most (80%+) of kids of mine and most friends my age in the church don’t attend any church. That used to be the breeding ground for churches; young families. We’ve made some inroads to the Millenials with infant children. But that’s mostly preschool kids in mother’s-day-out programs. Once the kids are in schools and activities, they drop away.

[Cornflake]

This story appeared in the Arizona Republic over the weekend.

"Billed as Phoenix’s first Protestant church, Central United Methodist Church is shuttering after more than 150 years.

The church’s pastor, the Rev. Brandon Gilmore, told The Arizona Republic on Thursday that congregants decided in a 26-4 vote on April 21 to close the house of worship on North Central Avenue near East McDowell Road due to dwindling attendance and lack of funding.

'It was frustrating and saddening,' Gilmore said of the decision to close the historic church."

My wife's family had long-standing ties to that church.

[coachdoc]

My 13 y.o. grandson just got baptized, his choice as the youth group at his Unitarian Church has engaged him and his friends with activities that a good chunk of his friends find engaging.

[Dub]

Apr 29, 2024 14:30:27 GMT -5 coachdoc said:

My 13 y.o. grandson just got baptized, his choice as the youth group at his Unitarian Church has engaged him and his friends with activities that a good chunk of his friends find engaging.

I didn't realize that Unitarians performed baptism.

Is there a difference between Unitarians and Unitarian-Universalists? The church here is UU and I just assumed all the Unitarians are now UU.

[coachdoc]

Apr 29, 2024 14:44:33 GMT -5 Dub said:

Apr 29, 2024 14:30:27 GMT -5 coachdoc said:

My 13 y.o. grandson just got baptized, his choice as the youth group at his Unitarian Church has engaged him and his friends with activities that a good chunk of his friends find engaging.

I didn't realize that Unitarians performed baptism.

Is there a difference between Unitarians and Unitarian-Universalists? The church here is UU and I just assumed all the Unitarians are now UU.

Dunno for a fact. I’ve always assumed two names for same organization.