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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2008 16:09:14 GMT -5
He said esoteric, not erotic..
anyway, for the B section I have (and this is a rough sketch, some may need to be changed)
Cm7 F Bb// Ebm Abm7 C#maj7-/F C F
For right now I am using Fred Green 3 string chords, they're easy to move around and it sounds alright.
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Post by Russell Letson on Jun 13, 2008 21:51:13 GMT -5
Pretty much matches my chords, though I throw in the Gm after the B-flat. And I actually play it in A, where I learned it to match the range of a singer I used to play with a lot. Your mention of it has me wanting to sing it myself, so I'll be fooling around with it to find my own vocal key.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2008 21:53:46 GMT -5
It's a fun song to sing and not so hard to play and everyone seems to like the song. Good I am glad my chords match up to what you do too. I like the key of Bb to sing in, though it can be an odd key to play in I suppose, unless you play the clarinet
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Post by Greg B on Jun 15, 2008 21:19:15 GMT -5
OK, let's take an easy Django song called "Swing 48" and comp some chords. The chords are Gm7 3 x 3 3 3 x Cm9 x 3 1 3 3 3 Eb9 x 6 5 6 6 6 D9 x 5 4 5 5 5 Strum them 4 to a bar. Gm7 | / / / / | / / / / | / / / / | / / / / |
Cm9 Gm7 | / / / / | / / / / | / / / / | / / / / |
Eb9 D9 Gm7 D9 | / / / / | / / / / | / / / / | / / / / |
Notice that the Gm7 shape can be moved up to the 8th fret to be a Cm7. So you could substitute 8 x 8 8 8 x and play Cm7 for the Cm9 As jazz players we think of those 9th chords as simply an extension of a 7th chord. So if we see C7 on a chord chart we know that we can play C 7 or C 9 or C 11 or C 13 If we see Cm7 we can play Cm7 or Cm9 or Cm11 or Cm13. Al those notes above the 7 are just extensions that give it a jazzy sound. Because of this we can do some fun things with those descending 9th chords in the last line. Let's try a "tri-tone substitution" Not to be confused with a "Tri-Tip Substitution" A tri-tone is the interval between the 4th and the 5th. Play the A note on the 5th fret of the low E string. If you move across one string that would be the D note on the 5th fret of the A string. That D is a 4th above the A. We need to go one more fret up to get the tri-tone. So the Eb on the A string 6th fret is the tri-tone of A. The neat thing about a tri-tone substitution is that those two chords share the same notes for their 3rd and flat 7th notes, but they take on opposite roles. For example, in an A7th chord the C# is the 3rd and the G is the b7th. In the Eb7th chord the C# is the b7th and the G is the 3rd. Same notes, opposite roles. This means we need a 7th shape. A nice Freddy Green A7th is 5 x 5 6 x x I often like to extend it like this: 5 x 5 6 7 7 But in this case the Freddy Green chords will work just great. Now, here's the same song with a tri-tone substitution tossed in on that last line. Gm7 | / / / / | / / / / | / / / / | / / / / |
Cm9 Gm7 | / / / / | / / / / | / / / / | / / / / |
Eb9 A7 D9 G#7 Gm7 D9 | / / / / | / / / / | / / / / | / / / / |
That formats correctly on my browser, I hope it shows up correctly on yours. Next up, scale wise chord movement.
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Post by Greg B on Jun 15, 2008 21:28:27 GMT -5
Scale wise chord movement. In that first line of Swing 48 we have 16 beats of Gm7. Let's add some chord movement by walking that chord up and down the first three scale tones. Here are our new chords Gm7 3 x 3 3 x x Am7 5 x 5 5 x x Bb6 6 x 5 7 (finger it low to high: 2nd finger, 1st finger, 4th finger) Now play that first line with 2 beats for each of the following chords. Gm7 Am7 Bb6 Am7 Gm7 Am7 Bb6 Gm7 Shift that series of shapes up to the 8th fret and you can play the first 8 beats of the 2nd line as Cm7 Dm7 Eb6 Dm7 Finish that 2nd line with Gm7 Am7 Bb6 Gm7 We now have a system of chords that reuse only a few basic shapes. But we can get a huge amount of swing chord movement from them. If we change chords every 2 beats Swing 48 now becomes: Gm7 Am7 Bb6 Am7 Gm7 Am7 Bb6 Gm7 Cm7 Dm7 Eb6 Dm7 Gm7 Am7 Bb6 Gm7 Eb9 A7 D9 G#7 Gm7 Am7 Gm7 D9 Make the chords swing and then play a Gm pentatonic scale and a G dorian minor scale over it and you're swinging like Django. Have fun. One more edit: Here's a video of us playing Swing 48. I'm using all these chord variations in different places. youtube.com/watch?v=SV2q--y_R9s
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2008 5:34:28 GMT -5
Wow, Dru thanks a lot! I have some vacation time coming up this week and I was planning on working up some of those jazz tunes for the seniors. Red, Red Robin and My Favorite Things are a couple. I love Django too, going to print this out and learn what you wrote about. I sure do appreciate it!
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Post by billhammond on Jun 16, 2008 6:56:41 GMT -5
Dru -- Posts like yours above make me realize how pathetically little I know about guitar playing. Thank you, thank you, thank you -- it's time for some woodshedding, I think.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2008 7:57:45 GMT -5
Dru, who are the guys playing with you in the YouTube? You guys sound good!
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Post by Greg B on Jun 16, 2008 8:11:20 GMT -5
That is "The Sierra Swing Conspiracy". It's me, my friend and student Sean Robinson on mandolin and fellow music teacher Ethan Lewis on Violin. Ethan and I both teach at Music & More. Sean is now living with his dad in San Jose and studies with Mike Marshall. That video was back in October at the 2nd Auburn Bluegrass Festival. We were the opening act right after the Pickin' and Fiddlin' contest contestants. Ethan and I were judges for the contest and we went straight from judging to playing on a COLD morning with no warm up at all. I literally walked on stage, took my guitar out of the case for the first time that day, tuned up and started playing. Our hands were cold and my gosh I can hear it when I listen to those videos. In rehearsal we're much smoother than that. Also, we started our first tune off WAY to fast. I can play at that speed when I'm warmed up but coming out of the gate it was tough. This page has a few more photos of the band www.brouelette.com/cgi-bin/blosxom.cgi/2007/09/08#20070908At this point, with Sean living in San Jose, we aren't playing together any more. That gig at the bluegrass festival back in October was the last time we got together. Ethan and I still see each other on Thursday evenings when both have students. I'd love to find another player or 2 and get together with Ethan again to play. He's quite a talented player.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2008 8:40:08 GMT -5
It looks like you have a lot of fun playing together and you sure sound good. Those guys are quite talented.
There's a studio in town that has jazz combo classes and I am planning to sign up. Mostly I hope to meet others I like to play with. I have been feeling really isolated when it comes to music because most of my friends around here are folkies who don't read music and dont' study guitar. Not that that is bad, but it just means they aren't as fun for me to play with because they don't even know what key their songs are in. I want to find players who are better than me to play with so I can keep growing and learning. thanks again, Dru for your helpful posts!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2008 8:36:53 GMT -5
Dru,
Or someone.. the next question I have is how to handle the right hand rhythm part. Being primarily a fingerstyle player, I don't really play with a pick or strum that much. I can do a pinching/plucking thing with my right hand of the chord while my left hand comes up off the strings to dampen the sound. That gives it the punchy swing sound.. but I am sure I am lacking rhythmic variety and don't really want to do that for every song. Any ideas for right hand techniques are appreciated.
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Post by Russell Letson on Jun 17, 2008 12:44:01 GMT -5
After 40 years of fingerpicking I finally gave in and started using a flatpick about ten years back--I didn't have a lot of choice if I wanted my newly-acquired archtop to sound right. Actually, I found swing rhythm with a pick to be nowhere near as fussy as bluegrass picking--especially with the Freddie Green voicings that make the treble strings less important. Actually, I started with the thumb-over, full-neck grabs that Sean Blackburn called "hoe-handle chords" and wailed away with the heaviest, stiffest Tortex pick I could find. (Now I use a Michel Wegen bluegrass model--about $8 each, but I make a point of not losing any.) Just keep that chunk-CHUNK-chunk-CHUNK in you ear and work on the coordination between left-hand damping and the right-hand pulse. The right wrist flexes--don't use the whole forearm--and provides a bit of snap on the 2 and 4. Here's Joel Mabus's beginner's explanation: www.joelmabus.com/swing_guitar_handout.htmHere'a a free video demo--this guy uses his thumb on an electric, but the pulse is about right: www.guitarmasterclass.net/rhythm-guitar/jazz-swing-rhythm-lesson/This description is pretty good, and it makes a point that I find useful about thinking of drumkit patterns: timberens.com/essays/freddygreen.htmIn fact, the two kinds of sound that have always been in my head for rhythm playing are the drumkit played with brushes (particularly the high-hat) and the whole Hot Club approach (in which the backing guitars replace a drumkit). This piece from the Freddie Green website is very nice--and I strongly recommend a listen to the work of the late Wayne Wright on, say, the Ruby Braff-George Barnes Quartet recordings. www.freddiegreen.org/technique/lehmann.htmlAnd quick before they get pulled (again), take a look at the Braff-Barnes Quartet. Don't be confused by Wright, who played left-handed: www.dailymotion.com/video/x19oi7_braff-barnessugar_musicwww.dailymotion.com/relevance/search/%2522george%2Bbarnes%2522/video/x19oe7_braff-barnessolitude1975_musicAnd from the same guy, Grappelli doing "Swing 42" with Martin Taylor and Marc Fosset: www.dailymotion.com/boberwig/video/x5o6w2_swing-42-grapelli-1988_musicIn fact, he has a whole bunch of really interesting videos: www.dailymotion.com/boberwig/1Of course, *solo* swing guitar can get a little more complicated, since even when accompanying your own singing you might want to have something beyond the rhythm chunk, but those things (involving four-note chords, high-string voicings, and some moving around on the neck) can be added to the basics as needed. The nice thing about the three-note voicings is that they leave the pinky free to add extensions and to move around a bit. But enough. Remember, all this will be on the midterm exam.
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Post by millring on Jun 17, 2008 13:23:56 GMT -5
I found swing rhythm with a pick to be nowhere near as fussy as bluegrass picking--especially with the Freddie Green voicings that make the treble strings less important. And ESPECIALLY as one can do that flatpicking with all downstrokes.
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Post by Greg B on Jun 17, 2008 14:12:14 GMT -5
Russell gave some good advice so I'll be quick. Think of the beats in the measure as 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & All the numbers are down strokes; all the &'s are upstrokes. Emphasis the 2 and 4 "Four to a bar" is just 1 2 3 4 (with emphasis on 2 and 4) "La Pompe" adds an upstroke either like this 1 2 3 4 & or 1 2 & 3 4 & Make those beats swing. It's not a metronome sort of "ONE AND TWO AND . . ." It's almost like the first and 3rd notes of triplets. Or as I say to my students: "If you've ever ridden a horse, you know that rhythm." One And Two And Three And Four And . . . .
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2008 14:17:46 GMT -5
I was a drummer in high school band, so I know what you mean about making those beats swing. I consider myself lucky that I started out as a drummer because I have good rhythm. My problem is that I am really a nylon string player and don't like to use picks... but I am learning these songs to play solo, so I am thinking volume is not an issue. So long as I can find a way to play these songs for the senior group, that's what I care about. Russell, thanks a lot for those links and great advice. (maybe I will get my Guild & picks out someday...)
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Post by Greg B on Jun 17, 2008 14:21:45 GMT -5
Oh man, if my camera was working I'd make a quick video of the way I play fingerstyle jazz rhythm while also playing walking bass lines.
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Post by billhammond on Jun 17, 2008 14:24:55 GMT -5
Greg, did it ever occur to you that you are way too skilled and knowledgeable for this forum?
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Post by Russell Letson on Jun 17, 2008 14:26:55 GMT -5
One more thought: Before I got religion and picked up a pick, I played swing with the backs of my right-hand fingernails, sort of a crippled rasgueado (the fingers stay together rather than being unfurled). For flat-four I used the index-middle-ring, and for a more boom-chuck sound I'd hit the lowest strings with my index finger first. This also accommodates a gajo version of la pompe, since upstrokes are pretty easy to manage with this right-hand position.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2008 14:45:22 GMT -5
"crippled rasgueado" great term! maybe it can be called Djangled
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Post by Greg B on Jun 17, 2008 16:33:03 GMT -5
Bill: You're too kind. Thank you
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