Ross Perot starts a web site

[PaulKay]

I'm sure you all recall Ross Perot running for president in the 80's. Well he's back with his own web site discussing the deficit and has this outstanding multimedia presentation of the facts. Well worth watching.
perotcharts.com/challenges/

[guitone]

Paul, you got me hooked on that one, very interesting.

[PaulKay]

It'll be curious to see if Obama or McCain will acknowledge the site or the facts presented there. You could probably spin it all kinds of ways though. The democrats could point to the damage the Bush tax cuts had while the Republicans can spin it that it shows we don't need any more entitlement spending. Or maybe they'll just hope nobody will notice it.

I think it clearly makes a case that we need less spending and more taxes. Not the kind of thing any politician will admit when trying to get elected. Obama has at least admitted some of the tax cuts are going to be reversed; but with clear intent to spend that money. He also has a palatable suggestion for addressing social security.

McCain will say he won't raise taxes, but like Bush seems to hold to the false hope that we can grow our way out of the deficit like a true supply sider.

So it seems to me that it is the Republicans that most in denial.

[millring]

Jun 17, 2008 8:04:30 GMT -5 PaulKay said:

The democrats could point to the damage the Bush tax cuts had while the Republicans can spin it that it shows we don't need any more entitlement spending.

Except that the reality is that tax revenues have been up since the tax cuts, and it is the Republican's excessive spending (earmarks especially) that is not reined in. So if the two parties chose the spin you suspect they would, they would both be exactly wrong.

[Cornflake]

I'm glad that Perot is going to talk about the deficit. Maybe it will push both candidates in a better direction.

[Deleted]

I pretty much liked everything Perot said, when he was a candidate. Besides the obvious budgetary problems and projections, I think it's easy FOR NOW to ignore the fact that the industrial base of the US has gone south. We don't make stuff here, anymore. We are something akin to a trust-fund brat, living off the wealth accumulated in prior generations, unmindfull that it's going to run out when debt service exceeds revenue.

Or, as I heard one economist say "The US is a third-world country that just doesn't realize it, yet".

We kind of let it get away from us, guys.

[PaulKay]

Jun 17, 2008 17:49:02 GMT -5 @dharmabum said:

I pretty much liked everything Perot said, when he was a candidate. Besides the obvious budgetary problems and projections, I think it's easy FOR NOW to ignore the fact that the industrial base of the US has gone south. We don't make stuff here, anymore. We are something akin to a trust-fund brat, living off the wealth accumulated in prior generations, unmindfull that it's going to run out when debt service exceeds revenue.

Or, as I heard one economist say "The US is a third-world country that just doesn't realize it, yet".

We kind of let it get away from us, guys.

That we did. I often wonder how different things would have been if Perot had gotten elected back when he ran. We probably would have hated the guy while he was in office because of all the tax increases etc but we probably wouldn't be in this mess. And of course we would never come to realize how bad it would get either and he'd have gotten none of the credit.

In a way, it's probably better for him to come back now and say I told you so. I read he spent $300,000 to produce that presentation.

[Supertramp78]

" tax revenues have been up since the tax cuts"

Fact of the matter, tax cuts can and have reduced the tax revenue of this country.

www.heritage.org/research/features/budgetchartbook/fed-rev-spend-2008-boc-C1-Federal-Spending-Is-Growing.html

Federal tax revenue has been going up pretty steadily for the last 40 years. It dropped during the middle of the Reagan years (the Reagan Tax cuts did put a hit on revenue). Despite Bush 1's tax increase, revenue remained at least flat. Clinton came into office and according to teh right at least raised taxes all over the place. Result? tax revenue increased by 60% over 8 years.

Bush takes office and puts in a huge tax cut and what happens between 2000 and 2003? It falls 20%.

Yeah, tax revenue has been going up over the last few years, but with the trends behind it I don't think anyone can say the tax cuts were responsible. Cut taxes and sometimes revenue goes down, sometimes it goes up. Raise taxes and sometimes it goes up and sometimes it goes down. But I still hear people saying that revenue went up when Reagan and Bush cut taxes. Yeah, it went up when Clinton raised taxes too. It went up all during the Carter years too. So what do we deduce from this? You tell me.

[millring]

Feceral taxes stink.