Was a Man of God

[Fingerplucked]

Was a Man of God
Jim Fay

In the days when the law was won
By the man who proved his might
Others questioned if they wanted to
But that usually meant a fight

He'd been a peaceful man of God till now
Spreading the word of love and faith
But those men took away his only earthly love
He saw his woman murdered on that day

Prayed over her for an hour more
As she lay lifeless on the pew
Set his white collar down next to her
Then turned for what he knew he had to do

...Chorus
...Strapped on a gun he'd never worn before
...Took all the bullets he could find
...No thoughts of God as he left the church
...Only vengeance on his mind

Those three men who came to rob the church
Thought they'd find no one but him
A kind and gentle man who'd rather turn the cheek
They hadn't planned on Annie walking in

A bold woman, 'specially for the times
Never took flack from those around
They got the gold, they silenced him, but she would not
So they simply pulled their guns and shot her down

...Chorus
...Single minded focus in his purpose
...Steady nerves and hands as well
...He's hunting now, he's got three men to kill
...He's gonna send their souls straight down to hell

The town still comes to hear him speak
Still spreads his messages of love
Though he's added fire and brimstone to his sermons now
And retributions from above

The townsfolk listen to his every word
Knowing he's now much more than a guide
It hasn't gone well for those who've disobeyed
The preacher with a six gun at his side

...Chorus
...Strapped on a gun he'd never worn before
...Took all the bullets he could find
...No thoughts of God as he left the church
...Only vengeance on his mind

[Marshall]

Nice to see you enter the fray here, Jim.

Interesting premise. But somehow there seems to be a couple moral steps missing. From my way of thinking a "man of god" would have some conflict while he suspends his beliefs to do what he has to do. Maybe a "forgive me Lord for what I am about to do" prayer or something.

And then there's the issue of killing (murdering?) three guys and just picking up the collar and getting back to giving Sunday sermons.

There are many Biblical stories that can be used to justify "an eye for an eye." I guess I'm looking for a hooking phrase to bring it on home, (so to speak).

[Fingerplucked]

Marshall, thanks for the input. I read your post last night and my first thought was that the song's already long enough as it is (over 5 minutes). But I convinced myself to just shut up and think about what you suggested.

When I sing this song, it's about a normal, peace loving guy who gets pushed too far. But once pushed, there's no turning back. There's no conflict in his mind about whether he's doing the right thing. Killing the men is just something he's going to do.

If that didn't make sense -- think Clint Eastwood. Clint's characters are usually (or maybe sometimes) normal people -- you just don't want to piss them off.

Killing three guys and then returning to Sunday sermons? Only because there's no one left to kill.

I did purposely skip over the part where he actually killed the three. I would expect any listeners to assume that he did, but there are no details in the lyrics, nor is there any confirmation that he did what he set out to do.

Then again, maybe it only makes sense to me.

ps: You'd never know it from my OP, but you were the one who inspired me to start this thread. I'm doing it all backward, of course, but I thought I'd give it a try.

[Marshall]

But I convinced myself to just shut up and think about what you suggested.

Wow. Such power, huh.

Well, feel free to ignore anything I say. Most intelligent people do. Yes, I understand the story. And I suppose it fits a Clint Eastwood type story well. (Like where Sister Sarah turns out to be a hooker).

I would not suggest any lengthy rewrite. I'm just blurting out what pops into my head. Take it or leave it. Sometimes an interesting critique can help us more the next time we sit down to write something.

As in the aforementioned Clint Eastwood movie, I have personal issues with creative works that gloss over the seriousness with which someone makes a moral commitment to the cloth. It's not something that you just take off and then put back on. But I know popular culture likes to treat such things more loosely. But I like to strive for genuine emotion ( ) in my silly little ditties.

Keep up the good work.

Got an mp3 ?

[Fingerplucked]

Mp3? I'm working on it. I've been working on it over the long weekend, but I think I might just be getting further behind.

I should have practiced this song to a metronome long ago. I've played it for others about a half dozen times & it's as well received as any other song, but I play it kind of like a locomotive going down a hill -- a big hill. It just gets faster & faster until I can barely keep up with it.

Thursday/ Thanksgiving I started trying to record it to a click track. It was ugly.

I was also thinking about trying to make use of my midi keyboard for the first time. I have a long way to go with it. It took me two days just to figure out how to make the thing play or record in synch with the designated tempo. It took another day to figure out how to quantize a track. At least I think I figured it out.

Saturday (I think) I started recording the guitar part as segments. It seemed to be working pretty well. But yesterday I noticed that there's an audible "click" where the segments meet for most of the "merged" portions. So I started trying to figure out why I get the click on some parts and not the others. I think I know how to fix it, although I'll have to record again to see if I'm right.

So, the long weekend's gone and I have nothing really to show for it. I'm trying to convince myself that I'm learning something that'll come in handy later.

Or did you want the short version?

[Marshall]

ha ha ha ha ha

I've been using the Zoom for quickie recordings. But even that took me an hour and half to get a 3 minute and a 4 1/2 minute tune done. And don't mention practicing time to try to get them to semi-production level.

But it's even worse when I put a click track on them and do the multi-track thing like you're doing. I haven't tried that in over a year. I'm still trying to decide what to do about future recording. I was encouraged by thumbs1's posted recordings on AG site. I have a copy of Cakewalk that can be upgraded to Sonar (for $). I need to get a new interface and I'll be ready to start over again on the new stuff. (I'm probably going to get that m-audio 4 input thingy).

But for now the informal Zoom recordings are working out OK. And they have the added benefit of letting me hear how they sound live.

[Cornflake]

I didn't notice this until belatedly, Jim. Glad you're chiming in.

I like the premise and it doesn't seem odd to me. The first time I read the lyrics, though, I missed the lines that implies that the preacher actually did something about this outrage. ("It hasn't gone well for those who've disobeyed / The preacher with a six gun at his side.") I'm not sure that you want to be that indirect with what is thematically the climax. When the song ends, listeners shouldn't be wondering what happened.

But I'll make a disclaimer kind of like Marshall's: my reaction doesn't mean much.

[Resolve]

First of all...love the title. "Was" a Man of God.

I am adding the disclaimer before I begin of "what do I know"...so take this with a grain of salt (or sugar in my case cuz I'm really pretty sweet).

I think it might help the listener understand what happened if you changed the 2nd chorus to past tense. The tense/time changes were a little confusing.

I love your rendition of Machine Gun Kelly...methinks you have been influenced by your love of that song as well in that you've chosen a similar genre here.

Looking forward to hearing the music that goes with the words.

[Fingerplucked]

Dec 1, 2008 20:25:52 GMT -5 Cornflake said:

The first time I read the lyrics, though, I missed the lines that implies that the preacher actually did something about this outrage. ("It hasn't gone well for those who've disobeyed / The preacher with a six gun at his side.") I'm not sure that you want to be that indirect with what is thematically the climax. When the song ends, listeners shouldn't be wondering what happened.

You guys (you, Marshall & Cyndy) are seeing things here that I never would have thought of. It's good to get different perspectives and find things that I thought were clear maybe aren't.

I've always been of the mind that if you have to explain the lyrics, then the lyrics aren't doing their job. Having said that, let me explain:

"It hasn't gone well for those who've disobeyed / The preacher with a six gun at his side." -- This line is about present day & how the preacher is handling his return to the church, not what he did to the three men. I'll have to think about rephrasing it. "Disobeyed" might not be the best choice of words.

[Fingerplucked]

Dec 1, 2008 20:38:45 GMT -5 Resolve said:

I think it might help the listener understand what happened if you changed the 2nd chorus to past tense. The tense/time changes were a little confusing.

I love your rendition of Machine Gun Kelly...methinks you have been influenced by your love of that song as well in that you've chosen a similar genre here.

Confusing? I don't know how it could be any more straightforward.

The first three verses are past tense. So is the first chorus.

The 4th & 5th verses are "paster" tense. They explain what happened to get the preacher to the point in the first part of the song.

The second chorus takes place after the first chorus.

The 6th & 7th verses are present tense. (Or as much as they can be, considering it was over a hundred years ago.)

The last chorus is simply a repeat. Nothing new there.

See? Pretty simple, huh?

Seriously, you do have a point. I had to double check before trying to write my explanation, just to make sure I had the timeline right.

It's sort of like watching "Lost." First you have to get used to all the flashbacks. By the 4th season, since most regular viewers had that part down, you had to learn how to interpret flash forwards. (By the way, with all their jumping around and the deluge of "hints," I gave up on ever trying to figure that show out.)

I'm not sure what to do about it though. I don't know that I want to try to put it chronologically, which is really the only way that I could count on people following the story.

Maybe it's a good thing that I didn't hand out lyric sheets when I've played this song. People would have been stopping me saying "Hey wait, I don't get it..."

The genre is a little bit of a problem. I have 3 songs that I play (when I play). This is one. Another is one I wrote for my wife with lyrics that are too specific to us to ever really pass on their own merit. (Although it works live -- the words go by pretty fast & I don't think most people are getting most of what's being said.) The third song is called "Woe for the Cowboy." It's really about becoming obsolete in your occupational field. It was tough to write until I decided to make it about Cowboys fading away as progress & technology took over.

So I have three songs, and two of them are about cowboys. I didn't mean to do that but it works as long as I stuff a bunch of songs in between the cowboy songs.

My next song will have to be from a different time period. Maybe even present day.

[Fingerplucked]

I just uploaded the song. Maybe it'll make more sense set to music?

www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=787557&songID=7126634

[Fingerplucked]

I'll take that as a no.

[Cornflake]

Give us some time. I can't listen to recordings at work and it's usually a while before I spot something in this forum.

[Marshall]

It's always made sense. My comments were on the believeability that a preacher would ever do that and then go back to preaching. *

Musically it has a nice flow. I like the musical interlude between verses. It (music) seems a little weaker in the fingerplucked intro.

I like the musical counterplay between verses and choruses.


* I know a few clergy people quite well. That's why i have trouble with the generalization. A couple of them could get VERY upset at something like this happening, and be quite capable of struggling with those same actions. But I'm sure if they were driven over that line, they'd hang up the cloth for good. Doesn't mean they would then abandon their faith. But I'm very sure they'd go into some other line of work.

I probably know too much. . . , or too little.


Back to the song subject: I realize that it was a staple of Westerns for many many years to have the hero who is a man of peace, who struggles with his past history of violence, and then is driven to the point of reluctantly resurrecting his old violent self to confront some overwhelming evil that only he in his old baddness has the strength to confront.

In fact it's the staple of almost ALL movies, Westerns or not. So, you're in good company. It's just that it's well trodden ground. I think I'm looking for a twist or something.

I'll shut up now.

[Fingerplucked]

Thanks, Marshall. You're right, and I agree with most of what you're saying. Doesn't mean I'll change the song, but I agree.

I think your views on a preacher are more realistic. I still don't know that I could introduce all that without at least another verse or two.

Like I said earlier, I was thinking of Clint Eastwood when I wrote this. Although after reading your comment, I guess I could have gone back to Gary Cooper or Alan Ladd, if not farther. But I am kind of partial to Clint. And John Wayne.

I appreciate your comments though. Most of what I've heard so far has been pretty non-critical with no suggestions on how it might have been bettered or at least written differently.

Oh yeah, that into? I always liked it when I played it, but after hearing it recorded, I decided it has to change. I don't know what yet, but it's a pretty weak start for the song.

[Cornflake]

I finally listened. If that's your first original (did I read that correctly?), well done. It's a good song and I like it better listening than reading.

I don't think the intro's weak, but my bandmates say that most of my intros are weak, so I'm not much of a judge.

[Marshall]

Dec 9, 2008 15:58:11 GMT -5 Fingerplucked said:

Doesn't mean I'll change the song, but I agree.

Oh that's just fine. It's a nice listen as is. Once a song is written, big change is not doable. Little subtle changes are possible. I've been there with that myself.

I hope this kind of discussion helps us all in the future. As you can tell by the tunes I post, I have a hard time living up to my own standards. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Rock on !

[Fingerplucked]

Flake, it's not the first one I've ever written, it's the third one. (Unless you count a few songs I wrote just the lyrics/ melody for while in a band 20-some years ago.) But it's the first one I recorded on my own.

The first song I wrote is non-salvageable, and is resting peacefully with all the other songs that other people throw away. The second song is the one I plan to record next. And then there's this one.

Lyrically, this next song is not my favorite. I think it lacks general appeal and is just too specific. I'm not sure that I want to try to rework it though. Or maybe, I'm not sure if I CAN rework it. I'll find out pretty soon though.

[Deleted]

I like the song and so does my wife.

[Fingerplucked]

Davey, for a guy with 2 posts, you have excellent taste. Thanks.