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Post by jdd2 on Nov 14, 2012 7:24:24 GMT -5
Have I got your attention? So, I've read thru the thread: acoustictalk.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=tempttt&action=display&thread=30918And it seems that americans as state-wide groups have no issue with succession--lots of people signing on to that idea. (tho maybe not a big percentage) And I guess that the "we're-going-to-leave-as-a-(renegade)-state" thing reflects a collective will. Which might be something different than individual choice. ~~~~ So I've got two colleagues, both american, who are dropping their US citizenship and becoming Japanese. They're both almost done, and in a couple months, both will become "japanese". Great, huh!?? Tho I haven't started any paperwork, both of these folks have offered help/advice if I want to do the same. One is doing it for political reasons, and I think the other is more economic. ~~~~ So I'm kind of wondering (and am confused): On the one hand you have thousands of people signing state-wide petitions saying they want their states to succeed from the US... ...but if you presented those same folks with an individual like me who might be considering relinquishing US citizenship... I might be fried, grilled, and toasted for being unpatriotic. But when a bunch of people sign up saying their state should split off it's somehow okay...? ~~~~ Paul S. --sorry, but I sense a little stupidity here.
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Post by dickt on Nov 14, 2012 7:56:17 GMT -5
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Post by dradtke on Nov 14, 2012 9:44:02 GMT -5
It all depends on motivation. If someone denounces their citizenship for personal or economic reasons, then of course they're unpatriotic traitors who should be shot.
However, if the President is not an American, then denouncing your citizenship is the upstanding patriotic American thing to do.
Understand now?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2012 9:57:41 GMT -5
How am I tied into this? I ain't from Texas!
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Post by aquaduct on Nov 14, 2012 10:00:11 GMT -5
Somehow I fail to see why anyone would care about what you do with your citizenship.
Kind of arrogant to assume it matters that much to anybody.
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Post by Lonnie on Nov 14, 2012 10:04:03 GMT -5
Interesting and possibly Freudian typo... "So I'm kind of wondering (and am confused): On the one hand you have thousands of people signing state-wide petitions saying they want their states to succeed from the US..." So, WHO built this?
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Post by Supertramp78 on Nov 14, 2012 10:25:51 GMT -5
How am I tied into this? I ain't from Texas! But Texas wants you anyway.
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Post by sekhmet on Nov 14, 2012 21:49:12 GMT -5
Ain't ain't a werd Mr Colonel Smarty Pants.
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Post by Village Idiot on Nov 14, 2012 22:32:50 GMT -5
Changing citizenship from American to Japanese I can understand, if you're living in Japan and planning on staying there forever. That might make sense. That's not at all comparable to the people wanting their states to suceed. It's apples and oranges.
In their minds. Theyr'e having a tough time with this indepence thing, as there aren't enough people in each individual state to make it possible. But I'm sure there's some spot in the world that is open, like the disputed area of Westen Sahara or perhaps Nunavut where all the people who want to leave the US, from all states, can collectively gather and make a go of it. They could claim to be like Israel.
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Post by sekhmet on Nov 14, 2012 22:38:27 GMT -5
It's stupid to want to secede from the country. Childish comes to mind. Disrespectful of the the democratic process. Self-centered. Impractical. Ridiculous.
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Post by sekhmet on Nov 14, 2012 22:40:01 GMT -5
Becoming a Japanese citizen whenyour wife and family are Japanese simply makes sense. At one time it was impossible.
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Post by aquaduct on Nov 14, 2012 22:53:20 GMT -5
It's stupid to want to secede from the country. Childish comes to mind. Disrespectful of the the democratic process. Self-centered. Impractical. Ridiculous. It's not stupid and self-centered. Government serves the people, or at least it should. That's the American innovation at least. When government fails to meet the needs of the people, they should have the right to change. Personally secession wouldn't be my thing. Canada would be more like it. But mine isn't the only legitimate concept. And of course, it's only 94,000 signatures. At this point it's just venting. But that doesn't mean the views have no right to be expressed because they're somehow inferior.
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Post by RickW on Nov 14, 2012 23:32:13 GMT -5
I do find them a bit bizarre, Peter. There's prolly a few billion people on this planet who would donate body parts to become US citizens. Whether happy with the prez or not, it's just another touch of the insanity and lack of grip that seems to be pervading US politics. And it's not just the GOP - I seem to remember folks on the opposite side making similar sweeping, moronic statements after Bush won his second term.
And, as I said in the other thread on this, if the US is poised to become the biggest exporter of gas and oil in the world in the next few years, I don't think your economic hardships will stay that way for terribly long. Because neither China nor India have that kind of oil reserve.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2012 23:39:00 GMT -5
Every election cycle we get folks that say "if so and so wins, I'm leaving the country." This is more of the same, and at least we don't shoot people for saying it. On that note, I sure wish Alec Baldwin had carried out his threat a long time ago.
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Post by aquaduct on Nov 15, 2012 0:03:14 GMT -5
I do find them a bit bizarre, Peter. There's prolly a few billion people on this planet who would donate body parts to become US citizens. Whether happy with the prez or not, it's just another touch of the insanity and lack of grip that seems to be pervading US politics. And it's not just the GOP - I seem to remember folks on the opposite side making similar sweeping, moronic statements after Bush won his second term. And, as I said in the other thread on this, if the US is poised to become the biggest exporter of gas and oil in the world in the next few years, I don't think your economic hardships will stay that way for terribly long. Because neither China nor India have that kind of oil reserve. Yep. A little bizarre for me, too. But then I'm a 51 year old guitarist openning at the Birchmere and making a career transition to IT from automotive. And I'm looking forward to moving to an apartment downtown over a coffeee shop. I seem to have bizarre wrapped up. Frankly, Toronto beats the living shit out of secession, but what the hell do I know. But bizzarre is what freedom is about. God bless 'em. And I still haven't seen nasty like 2004. Damn, those fuckers would drag you out of your car if you didn't honk for Kerry. I hope this thing turns around. I hope everybody embraces Simpson-Bowles. I have a suspicion that Obama's $1.6 trillion in taxes as his opening gambit today doesn't bode well. But mostly I hope the fucking federal government stands down and lets those of us with some energy and nerve do what we want to do. Lead (like that'll happen) or just get the fuck out of the way. I don' know anymore. Nobody's come to my rescue no matter how long I've paid into the damn system. When it came time for my shot at getting my mortgage changed so I could stay in my house, Obama's Wall Street friends told me to go fuck myself. Oh, and they're still making bonuses. Screw it. If anything I'm a survivor. And I've proved it to myself. But I reserve the right to carry a chip on my shoulder. Yes, I did build that. Don't like it? Piss off.
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Post by sekhmet on Nov 15, 2012 0:04:32 GMT -5
Peter said: It's not stupid and self-centered. Government serves the people, or at least it should. That's the American innovation at least. When government fails to meet the needs of the people, they should have the right to change. Government serves the people all of the time. From time to time it serves some people and then in a while it serves the other people. You guys exercise your right to change every four years. This cycle most of you didn't want to change. Maybe next time you will. Peter, when you speak of Canada you know you're speaking about a country with Universal Healthcare and very entrenched social welfare safety nets? A country that is a federation where the west and the east have the same problems with the middle that you guys do? We do however, appreciate good music and I'm sure you would be welcome here no matter what nutty politics you might hold close to your heart
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Post by aquaduct on Nov 15, 2012 0:18:53 GMT -5
Peter, when you speak of Canada you know you're speaking about a country with Universal Healthcare and very entrenched social welfare safety nets? A country that is a federation where the west and the east have the same problems with the middle that you guys do? We do however, appreciate good music and I'm sure you would be welcome here no matter what nutty politics you might hold close to your heart I've actually been there. Several times. Love it. Wife actually admires the weather. Imagine that. Don't give a damn about universal health care. I've survived 4 bouts of unemployment without insurance. Molson, Bob and Doug McKenzie, Rush, Triumph, hockey, Canadian trains, and Kenny Burrell at the Royal York are all I need to know. And I've spent way too much of my life dealing with politics. Really don't give a shit anymore. Maybe I'll call ahead for a reference when we bail here. ;D
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Post by Supertramp78 on Nov 15, 2012 0:39:46 GMT -5
'I hope everybody embraces Simpson-Bowles.'
yup
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Post by timfarney on Nov 15, 2012 6:14:44 GMT -5
Funny that often the same people who would condemn an American for "becoming Japanese" demand that immigrants to America should lose their language and culture, assimilate, and "become American" as quickly as possible.
There are words for such attitudes. Patriotic does not come to mind.
Tim
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Post by brucemacneill on Nov 15, 2012 6:16:42 GMT -5
My older sister has lived in Sweden for the past 10 years, still votes in California though.
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