|
|
Post by brucemacneill on Jun 18, 2018 8:02:38 GMT -5
What should set minimum wage? What should it be? How should it be determined? Minimum wage is what you have to pay to get someone who can do what you need done to do what you need done. |
|
|
|
Post by millring on Jun 18, 2018 8:19:35 GMT -5
What should set minimum wage? What should it be? How should it be determined? Minimum wage is what you have to pay to get someone who can do what you need done to do what you need done. That doesn't strike me as a particularly serious answer. |
|
|
|
Post by brucemacneill on Jun 18, 2018 8:29:57 GMT -5
Minimum wage is what you have to pay to get someone who can do what you need done to do what you need done. That doesn't strike me as a particularly serious answer. Actually, it is. Otherwise there wouldn't be a market for illegal aliens. |
|
|
|
Post by millring on Jun 18, 2018 8:32:16 GMT -5
That doesn't strike me as a particularly serious answer. Actually, it is. Otherwise there wouldn't be a market for illegal aliens. No it's not because employing illegal aliens is, itself, illegal. |
|
|
|
Post by brucemacneill on Jun 18, 2018 8:35:10 GMT -5
Actually, it is. Otherwise there wouldn't be a market for illegal aliens. No it's not because employing illegal aliens is, itself, illegal. How's that working out for you? We have more illegal aliens in this country than Canada has population. Why? Well besides the weather, they can't work in Canada. |
|
|
|
Post by millring on Jun 18, 2018 8:36:48 GMT -5
I don't follow. The question(s) is/are: What should set minimum wage? What should it be? How should it be determined?
|
|
|
|
Post by fauxmaha on Jun 18, 2018 9:02:00 GMT -5
The U-Haul guys have the best collection of aggregated "quality-of-life for the middle class" data anywhere. Simple enough to use. Pick your favorite socialist utopia, and the compare the cost of renting a U-Haul, one-way, from that location to another city, versus the cost of a one-way rental going the other direction. The greater the price difference, the greater the net migration away from utopia. The great thing about this is that it is absolutely and entirely market driven. There are no government bureaucrats applying "seasonal corrections" or any of that sort of skulduggery. It's actual, raw data produced by real people who have real skin in the game.    |
|
|
|
Post by Marshall on Jun 18, 2018 9:06:08 GMT -5
Skull Duggery  |
|
|
|
Post by fauxmaha on Jun 18, 2018 9:06:24 GMT -5
I don't follow. The question(s) is/are: What should set minimum wage? What should it be? How should it be determined? 1) The market. 2) Whatever the market says it should be. 3) See #1 I've observed how in recent months, there has been a lot of talk from left-of-center commentators to the effect that Trump is running us to ruin with his tariff proposals. And I generally agree. No tariffs for me. The curious thing, however, is there is absolutely no economic, moral or logical distinction between a tariff and a minimum wage law. |
|
|
|
Post by millring on Jun 18, 2018 9:14:02 GMT -5
As far as I can tell, the minimum wage has never been anything more than an arbitrary number. It's discussed on some philosophical level that is totally abstracted as if all business is the same, all states are the same, all regions are the same. The proponents of it are rarely asked whether the expectation is that prices will go up to cover it? ...will all other wages based on seniority be raised commensurately? ...is this minimum wage based on actual cost of living? ...and if so, shouldn't the minimum wage be set by the State or region, as cost of living varies wildly from region to region? ...and what will the overall effects be on employment? ....and should entry level jobs be judged as "careers" the demand a living wage? ...and can we be so cavalier that if a particular industry cannot exist at a new level of wage, society simply doesn't need that industry?
I'm of the rare opinion -- given my rightward leanings -- that we should have a minimum wage. My reason for believing in a minimum wage is a firm conviction that most business owners would enslave people if given the opportunity. I think the government has the duty to protect American citizens from being exploited by their conditions, just as it has the duty to protect us from usury (something it's not interested in doing).
But every time I want to find a good discussion on minimum wage, I find the arguments bordering on silly at best.
|
|
|
|
Post by fauxmaha on Jun 18, 2018 9:24:36 GMT -5
In practical terms today, there is no such thing as a minimum wage law in most places in the US.
Doubt me? Try hiring someone for the US national minimum wage of $7.25/hr. Not going to happen.
In Nebraska, the minimum wage is $9/hr. Again, you can't hire someone for that. Functionally, the minimum wage here is something like $10 to $12.
Contra to Russell's previous assertion, if we are going to have minimum wage laws (and I don't think we should), then local or state based versions are far preferable to a single, national law. Set the national minimum wage according to what some guy calculates is a "living wage" in San Francisco, and you'll put half of the country out of business overnight.
|
|
|
|
Post by brucemacneill on Jun 18, 2018 9:36:35 GMT -5
So, I repeat, "Minimum wage is what you have to pay to get someone who can do what you need done to do what you need done. " The amount will vary by kind of work to be done, location and available work force capable of doing the needed work of course. Any other measure is communist propaganda. Not all jobs are "Careers" and not all jobs will provide a "Livable" wage. Whatever the lowest wage is becomes "0" on the social scale. Not all work can be paid on number of widgets per hour which is a necessary measure if you're going to pay by the hour. "Minimum wage" is a progressive theory with no substance. Equality, which they seek, requires that everyone be equally poor.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2018 9:48:08 GMT -5
I pay my handyman $25 an hour. He works in between his other two jobs: documentary/instructional film cameraman and editor, and Apple store employee.
I do most yard work myself. Saturday I paid $75 an hour to Manuel Senior and Jr. to do work I couldn’t. 4 hours to clear bamboo, Banks Roses, trim hedges, clean flower beds. They filled a huge trailer. It would have taken me a week with my Tacoma.
My son makes $18 an hour at Trader Joe’s.
Bakersfield/California has relied on illegal immigrants from Mexico who historically have worked in agriculture. They were hired by Conservative Republicans like my Dad who paid them minimum wage and didn’t care if they were US citizens until recently. Now, crops are rotting in the fields because there is a huge shortage of workers. White people stand on corners and freeway exits with signs that always have God Bless written on the bottom. Will these people work in the fields, yards, construction, fast food? Never.
|
|
|
|
Post by Marshall on Jun 18, 2018 10:52:04 GMT -5
Jeffism explained 
|
|
|
|
Post by Marshall on Jun 18, 2018 10:54:06 GMT -5
Aquaduct explained 
|
|
|
|
Post by sidheguitarmichael on Jun 18, 2018 16:26:18 GMT -5
The U-Haul guys have the best collection of aggregated "quality-of-life for the middle class" data anywhere. Simple enough to use. Pick your favorite socialist utopia, and the compare the cost of renting a U-Haul, one-way, from that location to another city, versus the cost of a one-way rental going the other direction. The greater the price difference, the greater the net migration away from utopia. The great thing about this is that it is absolutely and entirely market driven. There are no government bureaucrats applying "seasonal corrections" or any of that sort of skulduggery. It's actual, raw data produced by real people who have real skin in the game. Dang, Jeff, that is an interesting bit of data culling. K and I bought a rental property largely because there is a big influx of people moving from Seattle to where we are right now.   Also:   |
|
|
|
Post by Marshall on Jun 18, 2018 17:21:19 GMT -5
Skull Duggery And, just what were they doing when they were laid out like that ? ? ? |
|
|
|
Post by theevan on Jun 18, 2018 17:23:43 GMT -5
Spooning, obviously.
|
|
|
|
Post by james on Jun 18, 2018 20:54:33 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by theevan on Jun 18, 2018 21:49:19 GMT -5
Some truth there.
Minimum wage hurts the people at the bottom.
But as Jeff said, it's mostly moot. My entry hire is @46% above minimum.
|
|
