|
|
Post by david on Sept 6, 2018 16:31:16 GMT -5
It's these parts that speak fearfully about Trump: When a man unprincipled in private life desperate in his fortune, bold in his temper, possessed of considerable talents, having the advantage of military habits—despotic in his ordinary demeanour—known to have scoffed in private at the principles of liberty[/b]—when such a man is seen to mount the hobby horse of popularity—to join in the cry of danger to liberty—to take every opportunity of embarrassing the General Government & bringing it under suspicion—to flatter and fall in with all the non sense of the zealots of the day—It may justly be suspected that his object is to throw things into confusion that he may ‘ride the storm and direct the whirlwind.It's not the political persuasion argument that bothers me. It's the entire being of the man. His dealing in the real world prior to being President disgusts me. His actions with our friends and allies in the world disgusts me. His lying and cheating and bragging misogyny disgusts me. His loud mouthed bullying disgusts me. It's the moral character of the man. Marshall, I shared similar thoughts about Trump several months ago. Politics aside, he is an ass, and, other than Peter, all the other posters that I can recollect on this board seem to acknowledge it. I do not intend to criticize Peter for his view. It makes me think more about my own and why it is so different than his. |
|
|
|
Post by millring on Sept 6, 2018 17:06:23 GMT -5
I shared similar thoughts about Trump several months ago. Politics aside, he is an ass, and, other than Peter, all the other posters that I can recollect on this board seem to acknowledge it. I do not intend to criticize Peter for his view. It makes me think more about my own and why it is so different than his. Almost every time I see or hear the man my heart is broken. He is bringing issues to the fore that I have waited my entire life to have advanced....and he's exactly the wrong vehicle for bringing them. And if I've learned one thing about politics and theology -- the enemy of my enemy is NOT my friend, no matter how many punches he throws that I wish I had thrown (sorry for the pugilist metaphor, but I was already handed the "enemy..." line by allusion). And that's part of the heart break. An issue comes up and he doesn't have the correct answer. Time and time and time and time again. And it's different from the Republicans who never have the right answer. He does at least get it that he's not being asked about these issues by a friend -- whereas the Republicans always held out the hope that they could be friendly and accepted if they acted cordially to their inquisitor. And they should act cordially. Cordially needn't come from a toady impulse. Acting cordially doesn't exclude being aware of the inquisition. Nobody ever has to be nasty when attacked. It never had to be either/or. It never had to be a binary choice -- a McCain of acquiescence or a Trump of belligerence. But that's what we ended up with. But Trump is merely stirring up the wreckage of a culture already in horrible decline. Many is the Christian better at the hope thing than I, but I guess if the issues of the day are teaching me anything, it is to believe what I already knew -- that my hope isn't in some Earthly utopia. On my run the other morning the sun was not yet up and I was watching my moonshadow move on the pavement ahead of me. And I suddenly and for no apparent reason thought about this: The points of the compass appear to be the same, that is, N,S,E,and W are directions. But for some reason it dawned on me that they are actually not the same. E and W never end. If you start traveling E, there is no point at which you won’t be traveling E unless you turn. Ditto W. But if you travel S or N you will come to a point at which you will abruptly be traveling the opposite direction. Latitude. Longitude. I’m making my way through a book right now that is exploring the redefinition of Christian Humanism after WWII through the writings of T. S. Eliot, C. S. Lewis, W. H. Auden, and Simone Weil. It’s got me to thinking about where our culture currently stands vis-à-vis directions. I think that without ever acknowledging it, the Western culture morphed from a theistic view of the world and the particular utopian end that theism either promised or commanded (some Christians believe our end is the inevitability of a provided for grace, while others view it as a commandment to create the kingdom of heaven on earth.) Christians don’t agree on this matter. But they do hold that utopian teleology. But the Western world has moved on from that theistic view of things. It is now materialist in its presuppositions. … ….all except for the notion of utopia. For some reason, that particular of theistic thought has stayed firmly in the materialist’s mind. Inescapably, it would seem. It reveals itself in every time the process of evolution is referred to as though it was a planned out direction with a terminus in a utopian arrival at evolutionary perfection. Everyone’s a theistic evolutionist….without a defined god. The god is some sort of optimistic view that things will continue to improve. That’s not evolution, but it’s how most of the materialist world feels. If pressed, many will say they don’t think it. But they feel it. I’m not optimistic. I think Trump is closer to who we as a culture really are. People are disgusted with him and yet the most common word used in the universe of hating Trump and expressing that outrage is “fuck”. The word is everywhere. It is so ubiquitous that I've actually heard complaints from those who want a new, more vile word, as the ol' F word has lost potency in overuse. We are disgusting. Meanwhile, we are completely assured of our innate goodness only by our association with the right kind of person – as defined by a standard so vacillating and fluid that it cannot possibly be a standard. But we adhere to it anyway. And Trump doesn’t meet it. The fucker. |
|
|
|
Post by aquaduct on Sept 6, 2018 21:20:31 GMT -5
Marshall, I shared similar thoughts about Trump several months ago. Politics aside, he is an ass, and, other than Peter, all the other posters that I can recollect on this board seem to acknowledge it. I do not intend to criticize Peter for his view. It makes me think more about my own and why it is so different than his. I remember when he was elected that he was apparently the second coming of Hitler. Even smart people like Russell were talking about it. Surprisingly, I haven't seen any jackboots here where I live. Maybe it's different for all y'all. |
|
|
|
Post by Russell Letson on Sept 6, 2018 22:21:55 GMT -5
Russell knows way better than to throw around Hitler comparisons lightly. Mussolini, maybe. But not Hitler, and not his apparatus.
On the other hand, "authoritarian" does seem to apply, as do "oligarchic" and "demagogic."
John: There are plenty of materialists whose worldview is quite without teleology--me for one. Misunderstanding of evolution--seeing it as teleological rather than simply procedural--could well be a remnant of theistic thinking, in which the West has been marinating for a couple thousand years. Or just an ordinary aversion to the notion that the world isn't going anyplace in particular, morally/culturally speaking.
As for Trump being "closer to who we as a culture really are"--well, there's the matter of who "we" might be, as well as what Trump is, culturally. (The guy plays golf, marries cartoonish beauty queens, doesn't read, and decorates like a whorehouse madam. Whose culture is that? I bet he doesn't even care about NASCAR.) I can see what he appealed to in his campaign and why people who wouldn't want him hanging around their daughters might continue to support him, but I think better of those badly mistaken people than I do of Trump and his minions and toadies and opportunistic allies.
|
|
|
|
Post by millring on Sept 7, 2018 16:47:28 GMT -5
Or just an ordinary aversion to the notion that the world isn't going anyplace in particular, morally/culturally speaking. Well, no matter how many graveyards are whistled past, my gut tells me that nihilism isn't the warm fuzzy feeling the whistlers tell me it is. ♩ imagine there's no countries ♪ it isn't hard to do ♫ nothing to kill or die for ♬ and no religion too ♩ ♪ ♫ ♬ |
|
|
|
Post by Chesapeake on Sept 7, 2018 17:03:27 GMT -5
Marshall, I shared similar thoughts about Trump several months ago. Politics aside, he is an ass, and, other than Peter, all the other posters that I can recollect on this board seem to acknowledge it. I do not intend to criticize Peter for his view. It makes me think more about my own and why it is so different than his. I remember when he was elected that he was apparently the second coming of Hitler. Even smart people like Russell were talking about it. Surprisingly, I haven't seen any jackboots here where I live. Maybe it's different for all y'all.Have you actually seen a Trump campaign rally? |
|
|
|
Post by brucemacneill on Sept 7, 2018 17:04:11 GMT -5
Well after many millions of dollars they got Papadopoulos. Lied to the FBI but it had nothing to do with Trump so 14 days in jail and a $10,000 file. Yup, Mueller's great. Apparently the prosecutors told the judge they didn't care about the sentence. He wasn't important. Glad you guys are paying for this and not me.
|
|
|
|
Post by aquaduct on Sept 7, 2018 17:23:30 GMT -5
I remember when he was elected that he was apparently the second coming of Hitler. Even smart people like Russell were talking about it. Surprisingly, I haven't seen any jackboots here where I live. Maybe it's different for all y'all.Have you actually seen a Trump campaign rally? Yes. Why? |
|
