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Post by patrick on Oct 2, 2018 11:17:19 GMT -5
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Post by james on Oct 2, 2018 11:32:37 GMT -5
Off at a bit of a tangent here. Have just read an interesting article by Brent Cooper about the the 'intellectual dark web'. (So named by the aforementioned Eric Weinstein). It goes very off topic and is very wide rangeing but might be of interest to some. medium.com/the-abs-tract-organization/enlightening-the-intellectual-dark-web-41f3a1e81b3eI am not going to launch into a necessarily long discussion about different types of Constitutional originalism, their advocates and critics, the Commerce Clause (Radiolab's More Perfect did a good episode for the layperson on that), Substantive Due Process (or its part in Roe v Wade and much else besides). Suffice to say that views are many and varied and as you all no doubt know, frequently at lengthily and assiduously argued odds with each other.
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Post by AlanC on Oct 2, 2018 11:46:07 GMT -5
I don't know why at this late date I feel the need to add to this sad thread but...
I was a teenage drunkard, pothead, and pillhead when I could get them. Three or four yellow Valiums, half a bag of weed, and a couple of six packs or a bottle of George Dickel were quite regular for a good buzz. Despite all the dissipation the worst I remember doing is trying to hold Dianne Shade's hand several times one night and her gently pulling it away. After sobering up I was pretty embarrassed (still am) and don't remember ever seeing her again. I certainly never went out of my way to seek her out for sure.
Grabbing someone, forcibly trying to remove clothes, and putting your hand over their mouth to keep them quiet is a BFD. If-and I mean if because none of us were there- he did this then I don't want him on the SC. Our problem is that we don't really know.
I think I read that Trump has a really conservative woman in the bullpen that would make the Progressives wish they had shut the hell up and accepted K. I think they ought to put the conservative woman in there post haste. Schedule the hearings and vote just as quick as they can and move on.
That way they can play the victim and beat their breast about what the mean old Democrats did- blah blah blah and still have another conservative justice.
Just my $0.02
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2018 13:58:25 GMT -5
Read the breaking news.
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Post by brucemacneill on Oct 2, 2018 14:04:50 GMT -5
Got a link or something? What breaking news? What happened?
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Post by epaul on Oct 2, 2018 14:46:15 GMT -5
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Post by millring on Oct 2, 2018 16:08:42 GMT -5
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Post by brucemacneill on Oct 2, 2018 16:46:16 GMT -5
At least we're back to topics that matter to people.
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Post by timfarney on Oct 2, 2018 17:01:54 GMT -5
I really have no opinion on the merits of the accusation. How could I? Really, how can anyone? There's a simple solution here: The Democrats are saying that the justification for abandoning bedrock principles such as presumption of innocence and due process is because the stakes are too high. This is a lifetime appointment, after all. You’re going to have to help me understand how wanting a thorough investigation of increasingly credible charges constitutes abandoning due process and presumption of innocence.
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Post by sidheguitarmichael on Oct 2, 2018 17:11:44 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2018 17:18:52 GMT -5
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Post by fauxmaha on Oct 2, 2018 17:19:54 GMT -5
I really have no opinion on the merits of the accusation. How could I? Really, how can anyone? There's a simple solution here: The Democrats are saying that the justification for abandoning bedrock principles such as presumption of innocence and due process is because the stakes are too high. This is a lifetime appointment, after all. You’re going to have to help me understand how wanting a thorough investigation of increasingly credible charges constitutes abandoning due process and presumption of innocence. I'm not willing to strain credulity that far. Feinstein etal had the allegation in hand back when the investigation was actively underway. They made a political calculation to withhold the allegation from the FBI and the committee in order to manufacture an 11th hour spectacle, sacrificing Ford's dignity in the process. And really, Kavanaugh has been through multiple FBI investigations before. There is a pretty hilarious contradiction in simultaneously demanding 'just one more' FBI investigation while implicitly accusing the FBI of completely missing the fact that Kavanaugh was allegedly for years an out of control alcoholic who led a serial rape gang. Also, can you define "credible" as you are using it there.
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Post by Cornflake on Oct 2, 2018 19:17:30 GMT -5
Which page is it where we all say that we've been convinced by the cogent reasoning of our opponents and we've changed our positions? Twelve or thirteen?
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Kavanaugh
Oct 2, 2018 19:42:56 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by aquaduct on Oct 2, 2018 19:42:56 GMT -5
Which page is it where we all say that we've been convinced by the cogent reasoning of our opponents and we've changed our positions? Twelve or thirteen? Not really interested in changing anyone's position. Just want to beat them.
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Post by TKennedy on Oct 2, 2018 21:04:45 GMT -5
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Post by patrick on Oct 2, 2018 22:15:29 GMT -5
Why don't women (and men) who have been the victims of sexual assault come forward? Because, in addition to the shame and humiliation, there are always pigs like Trump who will publicly mock them. He also led the crowd in chants of "Lock her up," referring to Christine Blasey-Ford. Despicable.
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Post by lar on Oct 3, 2018 8:44:02 GMT -5
I am saddened that the political climate in this country has reached the point where decency and fairness no longer matter. It appears that we've even forsaken sanity and logical thought for the sake of politics and winning.
We're weeks into this mess and I still have no idea of who is right and who is wrong. I've seen no compelling evidence to sway me towards either side. Reserving judgement until all the facts are in seems to be the minority viewpoint, however. Trump is running down Dr. Ford at political rallies. Women are coming together to protest Cavinaugh without even knowing for sure that he did anything wrong. What the hell is wrong with people?
I'm at the point now where I think Cavanaugh has become so tainted that his nomination ought to be withdrawn. That may not be fair but in today's political climate it's probably realistic. The problem is that future nominations by either party are going to be subjected to the same kind of treatment. What have we done to our country and how long is it going to take reasonable, thoughtful people to come to the realization that this can't continue?
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Post by millring on Oct 3, 2018 9:44:40 GMT -5
He also led the crowd in chants of "Lock her up," referring to Christine Blasey-Ford. Despicable. Where? When I google "lock her up" I come up with videos of chants at a Trump rally crying "We want Kavanaugh!". Any chanting of "Lock her up" in google only leads to stories about Sessions and Hillary Clinton.
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Post by millring on Oct 3, 2018 9:47:27 GMT -5
I think it's quite demeaning to women to assume that they would have no doubts about Dr Ford's credibility. Women cannot have independent thoughts?
Oh yeah, "women's issues". Women are ______. All of them. Just like black people are ______. All of them.
Identity politics just might have a weakness. Group attribution. The fundamental building block of bigotry.
And you're offended at my observation above?
I'm offended that you assume that because I might doubt Dr Ford's narrative that I think women should shut up when victimized.
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Post by fauxmaha on Oct 3, 2018 10:37:43 GMT -5
By Trumpian standards, he has been pleasantly silent during all of this. If he decided to break that silence, that's a mistake.
As for locking up Ford, I think once this is over (one way or another), it's best to let the whole thing die out.
That said, it sounds like she may have a perjury problem on the polygraph stuff:
It's clear now that Mitchell knew the answer at the time, since the committee already had the letter from Ford's former boyfriend where he specifically stated that:
IOW, Mitchell set a perjury trap, and Ford fell into it.
The question then becomes who is lying? Ford or the boyfriend? Simplest way to corroborate that is to ask McLean.
But none of that is (IMHO anyway) all that important. The real tragedy here is that the lawyers that Ford thought were working for her were really working in furtherance of their own agenda. The same agenda as the minority committee members who connected that particular legal team with Ford in the first place. They screwed Ford over big time. There is no way a competent lawyer would let Ford get sandbagged like that. We also learned that her lawyers never told her that the committee was willing to travel to California to interview her, even though we have proof that the committee proffered that offer to them. Which is more evidence that her attorneys weren't actually her attorneys. Which is more evidence of my central problem with all this: The minority members of the committee have used and exploited Ford at every opportunity, much to her detriment. It's a grotesque and shameless display of cruelty.
As for all the #BelieveAllWomen stuff, we should ask Emmett Till what he thinks of that.
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