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Post by millring on May 6, 2020 6:20:53 GMT -5
Honestly, won't there come a point when the hype actually has the unintended consequence of leading the majority of working people to finally conclude that since there is no hope of saving us from the virus, we may as well just go back to work? I mean, up until about a month ago it was easy enough to keep up the narrative that saving the baby boomers was worth starving half of Africa. But at some point, won't parading out a new article every day about how the virus is mutating faster and more deadly than we can keep up with, and the hospitals are all overcrowded anyway, no matter what measures we have taken, and masks don't help except when they do, and every drug that comes out as hopeful gets shot down before it is even tried....
Won't we finally reach the point where our need to make a living and actually financially support the baby boomers who depend on the working population for income override our delusion that all we have to do is print more money? We get the message: There is no point at which the "experts" are going to tell us to take the training wheels off our bikes and trust the two wheeler. No point. Every time we even suggest taking the training wheels off, there are at least ten new experts we've never heard of before but who we cannot question telling us that we're all going to die if we take the training wheels off.
Won't we finally come to the point of realizing who is at risk and decide we have to let them take responsibility for their own survival instead of asking everyone who is not at risk to risk everything so the at-risk don't have to be at risk -- though it is a statistical impossibility for them to even NOT be at risk?
I get it (too) there is nothing quite so fearful to the experts as coming out the other side with exponentially fewer deaths than predicted (a conclusion we already know without a doubt is going to be the case). What happens when the predicted 2 million Americans don't die as predicted? ....Democrats and their press will tell us that 2 million did die and the folks who trust that press will believe them, and the rest of America that understands that nobody gets something for nothing will have gone back to work and realized the fullness of the hyperbole they just buckled under and either nearly or completely lost everything in that buckling.
The Democrats in Washington have been handed this gift a new Katrina with which to regain political power. The calculation that an economic collapse will empower them might be correct. But just maybe they have overplayed their hand by offering not even a glimpse at hope. Maybe this constant hopelessness will end up being a miscalculation?
If we stay in lockdown, we will all live forever.
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Post by aquaduct on May 6, 2020 7:21:20 GMT -5
Honestly, won't there come a point when the hype actually has the unintended consequence of leading the majority of working people to finally conclude that since there is no hope of saving us from the virus, we may as well just go back to work? I mean, up until about a month ago it was easy enough to keep up the narrative that saving the baby boomers was worth starving half of Africa. But at some point, won't parading out a new article every day about how the virus is mutating faster and more deadly than we can keep up with, and the hospitals are all overcrowded anyway, no matter what measures we have taken, and masks don't help except when they do, and every drug that comes out as hopeful gets shot down before it is even tried.... Won't we finally reach the point where our need to make a living and actually financially support the baby boomers who depend on the working population for income override our delusion that all we have to do is print more money? We get the message: There is no point at which the "experts" are going to tell us to take the training wheels off our bikes and trust the two wheeler. No point. Every time we even suggest taking the training wheels off, there are at least ten new experts we've never heard of before but who we cannot question telling us that we're all going to die if we take the training wheels off. Won't we finally come to the point of realizing who is at risk and decide we have to let them take responsibility for their own survival instead of asking everyone who is not at risk to risk everything so the at-risk don't have to be at risk -- though it is a statistical impossibility for them to even NOT be at risk? I get it (too) there is nothing quite so fearful to the experts as coming out the other side with exponentially fewer deaths than predicted (a conclusion we already know without a doubt is going to be the case). What happens when the predicted 2 million Americans don't die as predicted? ....Democrats and their press will tell us that 2 million did die and the folks who trust that press will believe them, and the rest of America that understands that nobody gets something for nothing will have gone back to work and realized the fullness of the hyperbole they just buckled under and either nearly or completely lost everything in that buckling. The Democrats in Washington have been handed this gift a new Katrina with which to regain political power. The calculation that an economic collapse will empower them might be correct. But just maybe they have overplayed their hand by offering not even a glimpse at hope. Maybe this constant hopelessness will end up being a miscalculation? If we stay in lockdown, we will all live forever. The hype's already falling apart. Most states are opening up. The more fascist are under incredible public pressure, which isn't helped by the other states next door who are opening up. Still, the cowards are fighting with their last gasps. Saw an article in Slate this morning that's pillorying the Wisconsin Supreme Court for looking like they're going to over rule the Governor and declare all the stay at home shit invalid. Of course, those assholes at Slate blame it on Fox News because it's a Republican state house that's suing with 5 Republicans on the Supreme Court. Haven't these fucking idiots been paying attention? As useless as the U.S. Congress has been for decades, Cocaine Mitch has been playing with the confirmation rule changes dictated by Harry Reid and has been confirming judges as fast as they can. This, along with the article you put up a couple pages back about the retired WP writer who's just discovering how difficult life here in the real world actually is, speaks volumes to me. This is a turning point. Here it is in real time. The great experiment. Global warming (cheered by progressives because shutting down economies is reducing CO2 output. Yeah, no shit dumbass), the Administrative State, the role and definition of "experts", the criminal use of modelling- it's all there. Democrats are wetting themselves over the chance to defeat Trump. Yet they nominate a senile old man who's locked in his basement. But they're too early. It's only May.
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Post by Marshall on May 6, 2020 9:18:44 GMT -5
MY, my, my. Don't we take things to extremes? I won't say there's not any truth in that. But I don't think it's going to be a totalitarian state lock-down like righties are fomenting about. Yes, we need to open things up more pretty darn soon. I'm playing golf tomorrow. I'm reading Howard's book, The Given Day. Part of it takes place during the 1917 pandemic. Pretty graphic awful stuff. But the medical system of the day had very few weapons to fight this thing. Complications from bacterial infections piled on the poor schlobs that got it bad. Our modern medical system can do a MUCH better job of saving people, as long as they aren't overwhelmed. And they are no being overwhelmed by this, except in a a couple of places, like NY. (Poor NY. Why always NY).
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Post by epaul on May 6, 2020 9:34:34 GMT -5
This conspiracy is far broader than you two credit. It isn't just the United States that has fallen for the lies of epidemiologists (take out the epi and change a few other letters, and epideminologist spells "demon- ologist"). The rest of the world has fallen for these same lies. China, Russia, England, France, Canada, Turkey, Iran, Israel, Japan... what an odd lot of bedfellows, all deceived by the same hoax, all tricked into the same "desired" response by a scarily amazing number of "experts"...
... pretty suspicious when you think about it... deep think... really deep, deep, deep think about it. One World Government! Ring a bell? They've been waiting, we all know they have been waiting, waiting, for the right moment.
But, they didn't reckon on the power of Facebook! Fools! Facebook gives The People the power to create an alternate reality. Find a sour failure, hire a porn star as interviewer/narrator, throw in a sinister soundtrack, and presto chango, a new Truth is released on Facebook to do battle with the One World Minions of Satan...
... Or Zoltar...
... Here's a little truth nugget I picked up on Facebook. Next time Fauci the Fake is on TV, put on your Tactical Sunglasses, those ones that allow you to see the Flag so many try to hide, and take a good look at the back of Fauci's neck. A real good look. There is a little worm-like protrusion there... and it moves. The other doctors have them too. And not just our doctors, take a look at the Chinese, French, Israeli, Finnish, Russian, and Japanese doctors. The same little worm-like protrusion. On all of them.
Draw your own conclusions, but there is a reason the entire world is acting in virtual lockstep in response to this "crisis". There is a reason. Put on your tactical sunglasses, watch Facebook videos narrated by porn stars. The Truth is out there.
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Post by aquaduct on May 6, 2020 10:09:16 GMT -5
This conspiracy is far broader than you two credit. It isn't just the United States that has fallen for the lies of epidemiologists (take out the epi and change a few other letters, and epideminologist spells "demon- ologist"). The rest of the world has fallen for these same lies. China, Russia, England, France, Canada, Turkey, Iran, Israel, Japan... what an odd lot of bedfellows, all deceived by the same hoax, all tricked into the same "desired" response by a scarily amazing number of "experts"... ... pretty suspicious when you think about it... deep think... really deep, deep, deep think about it. One World Government! Ring a bell? They've been waiting, we all know they have been waiting, waiting, for the right moment. But, they didn't reckon on the power of Facebook! Fools! Facebook gives The People the power to create an alternate reality. Find a sour failure, hire a porn star as interviewer/narrator, throw is a sinister soundtrack, and presto chango, a new Truth is released on Facebook to do battle with the One World Minions of Satan... ... Or Zoltar... ... Here's a little truth nugget I picked up on Facebook. Next time Fauci the Fake is on TV, put on your Tactical Sunglasses, those ones that allow you to see the Flag so many try to hide, and take a good look at the back of Fauci's neck. A real good look. There is a little worm-like protrusion there... and it moves. The other doctors have them too. And not just our doctors, take a look at the Chinese, French, Israeli, Finnish, Russian, and Japanese doctors. The same little worm-like protrusion. On all of them. Draw your own conclusions, but there is a reason the entire world is acting in virtual lockstep in response to this "crisis". There is a reason. Put on your tactical sunglasses, watch Facebook videos narrated by porn stars. The Truth is out there. You forgot about Sweden.
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Post by millring on May 6, 2020 10:23:27 GMT -5
MY, my, my. Don't we take things to extremes? I'm losing my house, my business, my livelihood, my identity. What are you losing?
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Post by millring on May 6, 2020 10:24:11 GMT -5
This conspiracy is far broader than you two credit. I didn't call it a goddam conspiracy. Get a new line.
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Post by aquaduct on May 6, 2020 10:27:10 GMT -5
Fucking cowards.
Would be a good name for a COVID19 band.
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Post by Cosmic Wonder on May 6, 2020 10:51:02 GMT -5
How are you losing your identity, John?
Mike
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Post by aquaduct on May 6, 2020 11:23:33 GMT -5
How are you losing your identity, John? Mike You've never been unemployed and bankrupt with people depending on you, have you? Along with losing the career that's defined you for decades. I could (and have) talked a bunch about it, mostly because I've been there. The guy should be on suicide watch rather than being crucified by "caring" people that simply want him to embrace not working.
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Post by fauxmaha on May 6, 2020 11:48:14 GMT -5
How are you losing your identity, John? Mike Mike, you're a good guy, so it is with the gentlest possible touch I say I don't think you understand how indescribably cruel you are here.
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Post by brucemacneill on May 6, 2020 12:12:11 GMT -5
I was going to say that I was sad to see Mike asking a question like that but I guess it's been covered by Pete and Jeff so I won't.
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Post by james on May 6, 2020 12:30:44 GMT -5
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Post by Marshall on May 6, 2020 12:35:35 GMT -5
MY, my, my. Don't we take things to extremes? I'm losing my house, my business, my livelihood, my identity. What are you losing? **sigh***Yeah, that's SERIOUS stuff. Sorry, man.
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Post by epaul on May 6, 2020 12:46:09 GMT -5
Nope. Sweden may prove to be the country that got it right. You may prove to be right about the cure being far worse than the disease. To whatever extent knowing is possible. It may not be. Ever. Time will tell what it will tell. If a broad array of epidemiologists and world leaders, including Trump, got it wrong, they got it wrong. But there is no sound reason to ascribe ill intent or whatever conspiracy the anti-vac or deep state crowd shoehorn into their pre-existing conspiracies. Good people, qualified people, trained people faced with a decision and imperfect knowledge can get it wrong. That such a broad swath of people across every divide, boundary, and spectrum you can come up reached similar decisions in regard to this virus indicates that while too much was unknown, what was known was compelling enough to initiate such a broadly based consensus that Trump, Pelosi, the leaders and scientists of China, Russia, France, Japan, Nigeria, Iran, Australia, Burma, Tibet and California were all in an accord. Social distancing, shutdowns, masks, and testing. Yes, there was no endgame. Not a lot for the middle either. It all happened too quick. What was needed to be known wasn't. And, yes, it all could have been wrong. A team of the best engineers the world has to offer can send a spaceship to Jupiter. Doesn't mean it won't explode while attempting to enter orbit. Doesn't mean they were horseshit engineers. Doesn't mean man wasn't intended to fly. It just means that even though you do the best your knowledge and training allows you to do, sometimes too much is unknown. Every month, what is known triples. When these early decisions were made, nothing was known. Heavy lies the crown.
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Post by aquaduct on May 6, 2020 13:02:13 GMT -5
Nope. Sweden may prove to be the country that got it right. You may prove to be right about the cure being far worse than the disease. To whatever extent knowing is possible. It may not be. Ever. Time will tell what it will tell. If a broad array of epidemiologists and world leaders, including Trump, got it wrong, they got it wrong. But there is no sound reason to ascribe ill intent or whatever conspiracy the anti-vac or deep state crowd shoehorn into their pre-existing conspiracies. Good people, qualified people, trained people faced with a decision and imperfect knowledge can get it wrong. That such a broad swath of people across every divide, boundary, and spectrum you can come up reached similar decisions in regard to this virus indicates that while too much was unknown, what was known was compelling enough to initiate such a broadly based consensus that Trump, Pelosi, the leaders and scientists of China, Russia, France, Japan, Nigeria, Iran, Australia, Burma, Tibet and California were all in an accord. Social distancing, shutdowns, masks, and testing. Yes, there was no endgame. Not a lot for the middle either. It all happened too quick. What was needed to be known wasn't. And, yes, it all could have been wrong. A team of the best engineers the world has to offer can send a spaceship to Jupiter. Doesn't mean it won't explode while attempting to enter orbit. Doesn't mean they were horseshit engineers. Doesn't mean man wasn't intended to fly. It just means that even though you do the best your knowledge and training allows you to do, sometimes too much is unknown. Every month, what is known triples. When these early decisions were made, nothing was known. Heavy lies the crown. So why don't we (the "world" we if you must) go through this same shit with the flu every goddamn year? What exactly is different this time?
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Post by james on May 6, 2020 13:22:01 GMT -5
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Post by fauxmaha on May 6, 2020 13:27:04 GMT -5
It all happened too quick. What was needed to be known wasn't. The best news story to come out in the last few days: Exclusive: Government scientist Neil Ferguson resigns after breaking lockdown rules to meet his married lover
The individual probably most responsible for the initial "lockdown" response apparently doesn't believe in it himself. Delicious. The problem is we've got politicians (and their minions) invested in a policy that hasn't held up to the test of (even a very brief amount of) time, but they have no face-saving way of backing off, so it just grinds on. But we're already to the point where people are just not going to comply anymore. So this is going to come to an end, one way or another.
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Post by epaul on May 6, 2020 13:31:01 GMT -5
So why don't we (the "world" we if you must) go through this same shit with the flu every goddamn year? What exactly is different this time? The flu is a known. This wasn't. Still isn't. I have been trending towards, hey, this is mainly just knocking out people who were on their last legs to begin with. But, every time that thought tries settle in and get comfortable, disquieting news hits of young people, healthy people taken out like they were in a game of Russian Roulette. My niece and nephew, both young, active, and once very healthy, came down with this thing two months ago... and both are still gassed if they try walk more than a block... Russian Roulette. How many bullets? There is an inevitability to our actions. It was, I believe, inevitable that the world was going to shut down in response to this virus. It was going to shut down as it did regardless of the actions of various governments (ok, more so because of governmental actions, but, big picture, the virus didn't need the government to become a big time economic monkey wrench). Inevitable. And it is inevitable that the world is going to open up again, sooner rather than later. With or without permission (you're right in that regard). It's going to happen. It is happening. I feel it myself. Inevitable. And, for good or ill, we'll find out just how sharp the teeth of this thing.
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Post by epaul on May 6, 2020 13:38:24 GMT -5
Why the stretch to "He didn't believe in the lockdown himself"? There is no reason to go there other than a determination to go there. Little brain ruling big brain covers the guy's behavior perfectly well and is a proven motivation for every species on this planet.
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