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Post by Marshall on Apr 23, 2020 11:19:43 GMT -5
I saw two very disturbing segments on the PBS News Hour last night. They are disturbing because I DON'T believe in some grand conspiracy over this virus, but it's getting harder to explain some things otherwise. The segments were: PBS interviewed a Dr./woman who is part of a medical emergency team that arrived to help out in New York. She gave all the stock "we are overwhelmed, though in the past few days we've seen a little relief." answers. But here's the thing: they interviewed her live from the Javits Center with the "...from the Javits Center which has been set up to handle some of the overflow from the overcrowded hospitals" spoken in dire tones....but they never once mentioned that the Javits Center ended up being barely used (I found one news source that described a "trickle" of patients over the weeks it was used), but here's the even BIGGER deception: They never mentioned that she was standing in a Javits Center that had been empty for at least 3 days now -- all the medical teams had exited 3-6 days ago. The other deception was a report on how widespread the virus seems to have been in California as early as February. Their take on it was "SEE how CONTAGIOUS this is?!" ....when the logical take should have AT LEAST been mentioned -- that that many unknown and uncounted hundreds of thousands of Californians had been infected since February and their symptoms or lack thereof were so unremarkable that the virus went undetected for at least 2, maybe 3 months. How can anyone not see that as great news? Anyone without an agenda, that is. The orchestrated narrative has shifted profoundly too. Now that the initial virus did not meet expectations -- even as bad as New York got, they have automatically shifted to the new narrative that the "second wave" is going to be worse than the first. One reporter even said that this second wave is undeniably going to happen, and not even the slightest hint that if a second wave does indeed occur, it won't be because we "opened up" too soon, it will be because we shut down too completely in the first place.. OK. I see some of that. McCormick Place has been turned into a COVID center. For weeks. And they've reported the first 5 patients being sent there. That's it. I don't see it as a conspiracy. But I agree that the press wants to tell a compelling story. And in some cases lets their zealousness overtake the reality of the situation. If it bleeds, it leads. I remember that graphic from last year about the perceived vs the actual flow of lava in Hawaii. I do worry greatly about this situation. Sure the "second wave" will be something to be concerned about. But the economic fall-out of shutting the country down is as at least as BIG of a story, and it's not getting the attention it deserves.
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Post by Cornflake on Apr 23, 2020 11:30:23 GMT -5
"But the economic fall-out of shutting the country down is as at least as BIG of a story, and it's not getting the attention it deserves." I agree. No one seems to be looking beyond the next month or so. We really need to be planning or we'll wind up shooting from the hip.
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Post by Marshall on Apr 23, 2020 11:32:32 GMT -5
I am not especially disturbed about them being misleading and deceptive. I can watch Fox news or Trump's briefing appearances if that's how I want to feel. The worry is that the fallout from shutting down the economy will sneak up on all of us while we're all focused on the Pandemic story. The graph for economic distress runs a mirror image of the unchecked Pandemic rise. And that's not being discussed. We need a Milton Freedman to go along with Anthony Fauci. A friend posted on facebook a meme: “We can’t let the cure be worse than the disease” ...is something people say when they’d rather let poor people die than rich people lose their fortunes.He's a massage therapist. He's going to be hurt much more by being out of work than anyone who is wealthy. But he doesn't see that.
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Post by james on Apr 23, 2020 12:02:43 GMT -5
I was addressing specifically the segments of PBS newshour that Millring mentioned and saying that I didn't find them misleading,deceptive or disturbing.
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Post by Russell Letson on Apr 23, 2020 12:03:42 GMT -5
They are disturbing because I DON'T believe in some grand conspiracy over this virus, but it's getting harder to explain some things otherwise. . . . The orchestrated narrative has shifted profoundly too. Now that the initial virus did not meet expectations -- even as bad as New York got, they have automatically shifted to the new narrative that the "second wave" is going to be worse than the first. This is quite a reach. The sparse use of the NYC overflow facilities was being reported two weeks ago--Google pointed me to pages of stories. (After all, you found the stories, too.) As to using an empty Javits as a standup venue without mentioning that it was no longer in use--I don't know why the interviewee was there, but the view of the Javits in background shows an empty space. I'm not sure that the semiotics of that presentation overwhelm the content of the interview, which was mostly about the marshalling of resources and how strange it was to apply to a US city the kinds of measures she was used to seeing in foreign disaster zones. The discovery of Covid deaths earlier than previously known does not quite justify the proposition that "unknown and uncounted hundreds of thousands of Californians had been infected"--in fact, "unknown and uncounted" would seem to make it difficult to determine scale. What it does reinforce is something that has been part of the virological "narrative" for some time: that the contagion can spread silently via asymptomatic carriers and that it can present as a bad flu, which is almost certainly what happened to the unfortunates in Santa Clara. The "second wave" concern has been around for a while (I found warnings going back two weeks) and received new attention when it the CDC boss talked about it at the daily White House briefing. Whose narrative is this, anyway?
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Post by Cornflake on Apr 23, 2020 12:07:46 GMT -5
"The worry is that the fallout from shutting down the economy will sneak up on all of us while we're all focused on the Pandemic story. The graph for economic distress runs a mirror image of the unchecked Pandemic rise. And that's not being discussed. We need a Milton Freedman to go along with Anthony Fauci."
A lot of our economy has been geared to providing services for which demand has plummeted and will probably stay low until there's a vaccine. We really need to focus on making sure essentials will still be available. We're geared to do that, up to a point, but we're not really prepared to be self-sufficient when doing that.
I haven't heard anyone discussing this. That could be because it implies that happy days aren't coming back in a month or so and no one wants to say that out loud.
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Post by millring on Apr 23, 2020 12:07:49 GMT -5
but the view of the Javits in background shows an empty space. No, it did not. It quite carefully did not. The camera angle never allowed a view of anything but the ceiling. And it did not mention that it was empty either.
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Post by fauxmaha on Apr 23, 2020 12:18:49 GMT -5
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Post by james on Apr 23, 2020 12:19:31 GMT -5
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Post by Russell Letson on Apr 23, 2020 12:47:33 GMT -5
John, I watched that video segment with particular attention to visuals, and I could clearly see the floor in the background, with a handful of figures (looking like military) moving around in the distance. It was a big, empty space, and I wondered whether they'd set up in one of those cavernous lobby-like areas one gets in convention centers.
A separate question: What would have been an appropriate venue for the interview? Was it chosen because that's were the interviewee had been working? Because it was available and not full of active medical personnel and patients? How many such standups have been done in active working areas, as distinct from, say, the street? Does it matter whether the crew and subject need to be masked up? (The interviewer was at home.)
Occam's Razor shaves some of the orchestrated-narrative hair off this one, I think.
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Post by millring on Apr 23, 2020 13:34:38 GMT -5
John, I watched that video segment with particular attention to visuals, and I could clearly see the floor in the background, with a handful of figures (looking like military) moving around in the distance. It was a big, empty space, and I wondered whether they'd set up in one of those cavernous lobby-like areas one gets in convention centers. A separate question: What would have been an appropriate venue for the interview? Was it chosen because that's were the interviewee had been working? Because it was available and not full of active medical personnel and patients? How many such standups have been done in active working areas, as distinct from, say, the street? Does it matter whether the crew and subject need to be masked up? (The interviewer was at home.) Occam's Razor shaves some of the orchestrated-narrative hair off this one, I think. If it's so big, so cavernous, so empty, why didn't that get mentioned when that is at least as big a story as the fact that it was utilized in the first place.
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COVID 19
Apr 23, 2020 14:21:56 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Marshall on Apr 23, 2020 14:21:56 GMT -5
Was out driving around. The noon biz report on radio said unemployment is up to 18%. This is following closely projections that it would reach 25% by mid summer. The same level as in the Great Depression.
I’m just sayin’
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Post by james on Apr 23, 2020 14:36:45 GMT -5
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Post by millring on Apr 23, 2020 14:59:57 GMT -5
It is a huge story. It should have been mentioned. Said another way, both of the news items I mentioned made better good news stories than bad news stories, but they chose to ignore the facts and make them bad news stories.
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Post by james on Apr 23, 2020 15:16:22 GMT -5
Your understanding and mine look likely to remain different.
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Post by Cosmic Wonder on Apr 23, 2020 17:19:26 GMT -5
The LA Times ran a srptory today that said we will see meat shortages in about two weeks.
Mike
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Post by majorminor on Apr 23, 2020 17:36:25 GMT -5
The LA Times ran a srptory today that said we will see meat shortages in about two weeks. Mike Not here. Still sitting on a few hundred pounds of elk, moose, and deer in the garage freezer. But I think you’re right and it might be time to buy a beef or buffalo quarter. Know a guy that owns the primary pork distributor in Hawaii. They are on skeleton crew to service local residential demand as commercial is gone and they are having some supply chain issues now. He’s been hit hard.
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Post by jdd2 on Apr 23, 2020 17:40:01 GMT -5
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Post by Cosmic Wonder on Apr 23, 2020 18:01:37 GMT -5
There seem to be no good choices.
If we keep up the enforced shutdown of society, we will witness another economic depression, with all the negative consequences that entails, hunger, homelessness, etc.
If we try to return to normal, the virus will spread, and I don’t know if people will even respond if the fear keeps them from living as we did before.
We are well and truly screwed.
On the plus side, Nita is making some masks as I type this.
Mike
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Post by Cornflake on Apr 23, 2020 18:19:02 GMT -5
Mike, I basically agree with you. I think we're in for a depression, barring a miracle. One advantage we have over the people who lived through the last one is that when a vaccine is developed, nothing should keep us from emerging from the depression.
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