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Post by RickW on Mar 4, 2020 14:30:05 GMT -5
Had an interesting discussion with my collector buddy while I was visiting. He has lots of guitars made with either wood, including a few made from Brazilian rosewood. He’s come to the conclusion that he likes mahogany better. His feeling is that it’s warmer, and a bit more subtle sounding. He likes the overtones of it better when fingerpicked. And of course, to illustrate his point, we did a comparison between a bunch of different guitars.
I can’t say I disagree with him. The ones I liked the most were hog back and sides. FYI, the one with ebony back and sides did sound a lot like rosewood. Would I have expected that I’d feel like this? Not really, the rosewood popularity message has been ground out, over and over, though I do know a few folks who feel the same way.
Now, my feeling normally is that if I just like a guitar, I like it, and I don’t care what it’s made from. But this certainly did make think about it.
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Post by millring on Mar 4, 2020 14:37:57 GMT -5
The smaller the body, the more I like rosewood. The larger the body, the more I like mahogany. Visually, I like 'em both.
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Post by Cornflake on Mar 4, 2020 14:46:55 GMT -5
When I was shopping for a better guitar some years ago, I tried a lot of them. That's when I discovered that I prefer mahogany and wound up with a Martin D-18. There's no right or wrong to it.
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Post by majorminor on Mar 4, 2020 14:51:54 GMT -5
The smaller the body, the more I like rosewood. The larger the body, the more I like mahogany. Visually, I like 'em both. I never thought about it that way but that's pretty much my take on it as well. I don't have the comfort issues with big guitars some guys do and have some hearing loss so I like big loud guitars and figured out a long time back I'm a mahogany guy. The limited sampling of Brazilian guitars I've owned(2ea) and extended times with maybe 5 or so various rosewood types of guitars they draw me in initially but I eventually gravitate back to mahogany for the most part. Rosewood can sound a little metallic and clanky to me. Often in a good way but it fatigues my ear a little.
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Post by Russell Letson on Mar 4, 2020 14:53:20 GMT -5
There was a time when I would have argued that rosewood in a big guitar makes for too much boom--I preferred mahogany in the dreadnaughts I played (D-18 over D-28 Martins, D-40 over D-50 Guilds), and I quite liked the voices of smaller rosewood guitars (old Washburns, my 15" Cloutier) but then I got the Goodall RS (rosewood standard), which is a like a fat dread, and it's sweet and balanced. And my '20 (mahogany) 0-18 has a very sweet voice.
My conclusion is that it all depends on how the builder manages the formula--size, materials, bracing, weight, whatever. My two Cloutiers, from different batches, have overlapping build formulas--redwood tops, same scale length and bracing, close to the same size (though different body shapes)--but the mahogany cutaway has a noticeably different low end from the rosewood--looser, a bit boomy, where the rosewood is tight and focused.
When Steve built the 1994 batch that includes the non-cutaway, he made three to the same pattern, as close to identical as he could, except for the back/sides wood: rosewood, mahogany, and walnut. I played all three enough to settle on the rosewood, though I liked the walnut almost as much--in fact, I had it as a loaner for a couple weeks while Steve installed a pickup in the rosewood, and on reflection I probably would have been as happy with that one in the long run.
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Post by billhammond on Mar 4, 2020 15:50:06 GMT -5
You guys, will you PLEASE knock off commandeering our forum by yakking about off-topic subjects, like GUITARS!?
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Post by david on Mar 4, 2020 16:02:21 GMT -5
From a liberal Republican, conservative Democrat standpoint, I can definitely state that I like them both very much, and but that my slight preference for one over the other will change, based upon mood, humidity, song, environment and player.
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Post by theevan on Mar 4, 2020 16:04:02 GMT -5
There was a time when I would have argued that rosewood in a big guitar makes for too much boom--I preferred mahogany in the dreadnaughts I played (D-18 over D-28 Martins, D-40 over D-50 Guilds), and I quite liked the voices of smaller rosewood guitars (old Washburns, my 15" Cloutier) but then I got the Goodall RS (rosewood standard), which is a like a fat dread, and it's sweet and balanced. And my '20 (mahogany) 0-18 has a very sweet voice. My conclusion is that it all depends on how the builder manages the formula--size, materials, bracing, weight, whatever. My two Cloutiers, from different batches, have overlapping build formulas--redwood tops, same scale length and bracing, close to the same size (though different body shapes)--but the mahogany cutaway has a noticeably different low end from the rosewood--looser, a bit boomy, where the rosewood is tight and focused. When Steve built the 1994 batch that includes the non-cutaway, he made three to the same pattern, as close to identical as he could, except for the back/sides wood: rosewood, mahogany, and walnut. I played all three enough to settle on the rosewood, though I liked the walnut almost as much--in fact, I had it as a loaner for a couple weeks while Steve installed a pickup in the rosewood, and on reflection I probably would have been as happy with that one in the long run. My conclusion as well. I'm gobsmacked by my latest (and dare I say, last?), a very old-school conventional Euro top/Braz b&s classical built in Sapporo by Canadian ex-pat James Frieson. The outcome seems to have way more to do how the materials are handled than the materials themselves.
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Post by millring on Mar 4, 2020 16:06:02 GMT -5
Yeah....but....
nevermind.
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Post by drlj on Mar 4, 2020 16:08:22 GMT -5
All guitars are different. I have mahogany, rosewood, and walnut guitars. Any one of them can be my favorite depending on the day, but I tend to play the rosewood guitars the most. I don’t know if this means anything. I like my guitars. I don’t like Pabst Blue Ribbon, but who does? PBR is not a guitar so it may not belong in this thread just like it doesn’t belong in your refrigerator.
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Post by TKennedy on Mar 4, 2020 16:22:30 GMT -5
My personal favorite is a double side Mahogany OM with a Lutz or Sitka top.
Mahogany seems to really respond well to the double side touch in my experience, more so than Rosewood. At least with my building technique.
Again everyone hears sound differently. At my age my hearing is highly suspect as far as a reference.
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Post by jdd2 on Mar 4, 2020 16:31:27 GMT -5
Good guitars are like rabbit holes.
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Post by brucemacneill on Mar 4, 2020 16:58:12 GMT -5
Good guitars are like rabbit holes. "For a whaling song and a good guitar, the only things that I understand, poor boy".
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Post by jdd2 on Mar 4, 2020 17:33:07 GMT -5
I suppose there is a "whaling song" out there somewhere... ![(rofl)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/rofl.png)
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Post by RickW on Mar 4, 2020 17:35:43 GMT -5
I’d have been happy with any of the guitars I played over the weekend, that’s for sure. But it was interesting playing a bunch of guitars from top level builders, all of whom are very used to dealing with these woods. So I would not suspect actual issues where someone didn’t understand how a wood should be handled. The Martin OOO-18 custom shop was the cheapest and most ‘factory” of the bunch. So it was a good day’s. comparison.
I also do like walnut. My little tenor is black walnut, and it has a tone and some punch to it.
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Post by Marshall on Mar 4, 2020 17:36:21 GMT -5
Brrrrrraaaaaaazzzzzziiiilllllllllliiiiiiiiaaaaaaannn Rosewood guitars I've played have been SPECTACULAR. But also outta my price considerations. And probably not noticeably different for my rhythmic playing style. Soes, I avoid them. East Indian Rosewood is nice and warm. But a little muffly muddy in my remebrances. At least for my playing. Mahogany works pretty well. Or Sapele (faux mahogany). So that's what I've become used to. So THAT'S what a guitar should sound like
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Post by david on Mar 4, 2020 17:51:09 GMT -5
My personal favorite is a double side Mahogany OM with a Lutz or Sitka top. Mahogany seems to really respond well to the double side touch in my experience, more so than Rosewood. At least with my building technique. Again everyone hears sound differently. At my age my hearing is highly suspect as far as a reference. Terry, What is a "double side"? By the way, I love the look of your mahogany topped OM.
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Post by brucemacneill on Mar 4, 2020 18:05:27 GMT -5
I suppose there is a "whaling song" out there somewhere... ![(rofl)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/rofl.png)
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Post by TKennedy on Mar 4, 2020 18:38:41 GMT -5
My personal favorite is a double side Mahogany OM with a Lutz or Sitka top. Mahogany seems to really respond well to the double side touch in my experience, more so than Rosewood. At least with my building technique. Again everyone hears sound differently. At my age my hearing is highly suspect as far as a reference. Terry, What is a "double side"? By the way, I love the look of your mahogany topped OM.
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Post by TKennedy on Mar 4, 2020 18:50:56 GMT -5
Terry, What is a "double side"? By the way, I love the look of your mahogany topped OM. It is two thin pieces of side wood laminated together. You can use the same or different species. Total thickness usually comes out around 0.110”. For Mahogany I use the same wood for both. Been done in the classical world for quite a while. It significantly stiffens the sides and alters the vibration pattern of the top. They are almost always louder and to me have a little edge or sparkle on the tone that has been very well received by most folks that play them. The laminating glue makes a difference I think. I use Unibond 800 that dries hard like glass. I have been a little less impressed on their effect on an all Rosewood guitars. Louder but the tonal change has been less striking. One of the best received guitars I built by good players including Tim Sparks and Phil Heywood was one with a Birds eye Maple outer lam and a Rosewood inner lam. It had a Maple back. Lutz top. I am starting one soon to try a Rosewood outer lam and Maple inner with a Rosewood back.
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