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Post by t-bob on Jan 10, 2022 18:02:07 GMT -5
A crush of patients infected with the omicron variant is sending health systems in some parts of the country into crisis mode. Some states have started triaging medical care as the influx of sick people stretches staff to the limit. Others are halting elective surgeries, reducing the number of nurses caring for patients, or turning some people away.
As the omicron variant surges, parents are struggling once again with a wave of school and day-care shutdowns. Many have been through this before, navigating patchworks of testing protocols, quarantines and remote classes while juggling their own full-time jobs. But it's different this time, especially for single mothers and low-income parents, some of whom say they've been forced to choose between going to work and staying home to care for their kids.
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Post by aquaduct on Jan 10, 2022 18:52:47 GMT -5
Did you see where the CDC director Rachel Wolensky has finally confessed that more than 75% of COVID deaths have been in people with 4 or more comordidties?
The question of did these people die from COVID as opposed to with COVID seems to have whipped up the panic that's driving this craziness.
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Post by epaul on Jan 10, 2022 19:07:08 GMT -5
Did you see where the CDC director Rachel Wolensky has finally confessed that more than 75% of COVID deaths have been in people with 4 or more comordidities? ... WHEW! I've only got three. [comorbidities] I only have one comordidity, and it's in the basement somewhere] |
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Post by james on Jan 10, 2022 20:06:05 GMT -5
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Post by epaul on Jan 10, 2022 21:49:32 GMT -5
Here is the problem. Right here...
CDC Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky DID NOT say or imply that disabled people are just data points nor did she callously say or imply that she is encouraged by the prospect of their deaths. Nor did she say or imply that "It is 'encouraging' that chronically ill and disabled Americans are dying… [that their] deaths clearly don't count." That is bullshitte! That is a twisted manipulation of her words.
And for what purpose? Gamesmanship, fire up the troops, gain an advantage for an upcoming political/policy fights? I don't know, but it is bullshitte! It wasn't what Director Walensky said or implied at all and it distorted what she said for some purpose other than fairness, truth, or clarity.
What CDC Director Walensky did say is this: "The overwhelming number of [Omnicron] deaths, over 75 per cent, occurred in people who had at least four comorbidities... So really these are people who were unwell to begin with and yes, really encouraging news in the context of Omicron."
Number one, this is a factual statement that reflects the best current knowledge of what is being observed about the medical effects of the Omnicron variant of Covid.
And number two, what she related is damn good news and only a damn fool would think otherwise. Consider the implications of a virus that spread as easily as a cold, appears able to bypass current vaccines, and packed a medical punch equal to or worse than Delta. That a vaccine resistant Omicron isn't wielding a deadly swath through the general population is damn good news.
AND
CDC Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky most certainly DID NOT "finally 'confess' that more than 75% of COVID deaths have been in people with 4 or more comordidties" Again, pure horseshit. Dr. Walensky did not finally confess to anything in her Covid past that she felt a need to confess for, nor did she address the history of the entirety Covid epidemic in a two-sentence tweet.
What Director Walensky did do was relate what is currently understood about the observed medical effects of the Omnicron virus (her fucking job). She said, "The overwhelming number of deaths [attributed to Omnicron], over 75 per cent, has occurred in people who had at least four comorbidities... So really these are people who were unwell to begin with and yes, really encouraging news in the context of Omicron." Straight forward information (and not a damn confession for past Covid misdeeds). And again, it's good news. Omnicron isn't an indiscriminate bulldozer of death plowing a wide swath through the country.
Attaching the non-existent and non-supportable implication of a claimed "confession" that covers all of CDC/Covid is BullShitte. It is a twisted manipulation of her words. And for what purpose? Gamesmanship, fire up the troops, gain an advantage for an upcoming political fight? Don't know, but it is bullshitte, it isn't what she said and it was distorted for some damn purpose.
And that is The Problem. Lies, manipulations and distortions for politics, gamesmanship, firing up the troops, gaining an advantage in some arena real or imagined just seeds shit in the Common and clouds the facts, the facts as they can best be known and/or determined at the time in an everchanging situation (that qualifier to the "facts" matters. A lot.).
The Problem, part 2. The issues we face are complicated and have important missing pieces that make surety impossible. But good people do try their best with these issues in spite of the complexity and missing pieces; it is all they can do, it is all we can do. And what fucks it all up royally is purposefully impugning their intent, distorting and maligning their motives, sowing fundamentally dishonest crap that disrupts and destroys honest dialog, befuddles important questions, and buries everything under a thick layer of mud.
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Post by Russell Letson on Jan 10, 2022 21:56:15 GMT -5
So changing a preposition means we can ignore the significance of 800,000 deaths. Whooda thunk fourth-grade grammar had such power.
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Post by epaul on Jan 10, 2022 21:59:16 GMT -5
WTF?
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Post by Russell Letson on Jan 10, 2022 22:04:01 GMT -5
Not directed at you, Paul. "With" vs. "from." |
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Post by aquaduct on Jan 10, 2022 22:07:52 GMT -5
That was remarkably circular and I still have no idea what the point is. What is quite clear is that of the current roughly 800,000 that have been advertised extensively as dying from COVID, 200,000 potentially actually died from COVID and 600,000 died with COVID, which is pretty much a somewhat severe flu season.
It demonstrates conclusively the panic porn in very stark terms.
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Post by aquaduct on Jan 10, 2022 22:10:10 GMT -5
So changing a preposition means we can ignore the significance of 800,000 deaths. Whooda thunk fourth-grade grammar had such power. Yes, precision of language matters. |
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Post by Russell Letson on Jan 10, 2022 22:24:16 GMT -5
As does a proper understanding of disease processes. How many of the dead would still be alive without a Covid infection? Not unlike the role of HIV infection in AIDS-related cancers and tuberculosis.
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Post by aquaduct on Jan 10, 2022 22:31:29 GMT -5
As does a proper understanding of disease processes. How many of the dead would still be alive without a Covid infection? Not unlike the role of HIV infection in AIDS-related cancers and tuberculosis. We really don't know, do we? Colin Powell had late stage terminal cancer when he died with COVID. So did he die from COVID since you've obviously got a "proper" understanding of disease processes. |
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Post by epaul on Jan 10, 2022 22:36:55 GMT -5
I just noticed, and fixed, a little trouble with a near quote used in first paragraph.
Will look for more issues.
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Post by TKennedy on Jan 10, 2022 22:43:19 GMT -5
COVID threads seem to be kind of like a bad trip with the disease. Starts fairly gently, escalates to a crises, and slowly resolves over 13 or 14 pages sometimes leaving long term or permanent residuals.
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Post by aquaduct on Jan 10, 2022 22:45:16 GMT -5
COVID threads seem to be kind of like a bad trip with the disease. Starts fairly gently, escalates to a crises, and slowly resolves over 13 or 14 pages sometimes leaving long term or permanent residuals. Yeah, who starts these things? |
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Post by epaul on Jan 10, 2022 22:57:44 GMT -5
Not directed at you, Paul. "With" vs. "from." Thanks, Russell. I was going through my post looking for prepositions, and the two I found seemed ok. Then I got dizzy. |
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Post by epaul on Jan 10, 2022 23:27:11 GMT -5
That was remarkably circular and I still have no idea what the point is. What is quite clear is that of the current roughly 800,000 that have been advertised extensively as dying from COVID, 200,000 potentially actually died from COVID and 600,000 died with COVID, which is pretty much a somewhat severe flu season. It demonstrates conclusively the panic porn in very stark terms. - Read what you said Walenski said, then read what she actually said. There is a difference. Director Walensky was speaking about the pattern of deaths associated with the Omnicron variant that have been observed to date. In this thread you are clearly mis-representing what she said and what she said it about. She did not say or imply that 75% of all Covid deaths were comprised of people saddled with the four comorbidities, she said by, any careful reading or interpretation, that 75% of the observed Omnicron related deaths to date were. You added the confession (of past misdeeds?) part and the 800,000 minus 600,000 equals 200,000 Covid deaths part. And I am not accusing you of constructing that misrepresentation yourself. Swallowing, yes, but not constructing. I expect you received it nicely packaged pre-distorted with a little bow on top from the people that shape and carve the nuggets you rely on. Similarly, groups on the other side of your group are putting out their own nice little packages with distorted bows and ribbons for their subscribers to consume, as demonstrated by those nice little nuggets accusing Director Walensky of claiming the disabled are just data points and that she is callously encouraged by their deaths. Bottom line, both groups are distorting what Director Walensky said for their own purposes. |
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Post by james on Jan 11, 2022 0:10:04 GMT -5
The only comments from Walensky that I could find since the interview which aquaduct misquoted above, were in her Twitter account in response, presumably, to being harshly criticised by some people. The Newsweek article, as well as mostly clarifying what she'd said on TV, seemed to necessarily contextualise her tweet in regards to it's relation to Twitter (and much other) criticism which, has, I think unfairly accused her of being not far short of a eugenics enthusiast etc. I didn't think that I should edit the article.
The excess mortality issue is one that I don't feel like revisiting yet again.
ETA - The Jetelina update is interesting and graph rich.
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Post by aquaduct on Jan 11, 2022 8:33:47 GMT -5
That was remarkably circular and I still have no idea what the point is. What is quite clear is that of the current roughly 800,000 that have been advertised extensively as dying from COVID, 200,000 potentially actually died from COVID and 600,000 died with COVID, which is pretty much a somewhat severe flu season. It demonstrates conclusively the panic porn in very stark terms. - Read what you said Walenski said, then read what she actually said. There is a difference. Director Walensky was speaking about the pattern of deaths associated with the Omnicron variant that have been observed to date. In this thread you are clearly mis-representing what she said and what she said it about. She did not say or imply that 75% of all Covid deaths were comprised of people saddled with the four comorbidities, she said by, any careful reading or interpretation, that 75% of the observed Omnicron related deaths to date were. You added the confession (of past misdeeds?) part and the 800,000 minus 600,000 equals 200,000 Covid deaths part. And I am not accusing you of constructing that misrepresentation yourself. Swallowing, yes, but not constructing. I expect you received it nicely packaged pre-distorted with a little bow on top from the people that shape and carve the nuggets you rely on. Similarly, groups on the other side of your group are putting out their own nice little packages with distorted bows and ribbons for their subscribers to consume, as demonstrated by those nice little nuggets accusing Director Walensky of claiming the disabled are just data points and that she is callously encouraged by their deaths. Bottom line, both groups are distorting what Director Walensky said for their own purposes. "The overwhelming number of deaths, over 75 per cent, occurred in people who had at least four comorbidities," she said. I did read what she actually said and quoted it pretty much verbatim. Just because many here are mathematically and scientifically illiterate and have to rely on news reports to tell them what this means doesn't change the simple facts of the matter that I laid out. There is a definite difference between dying from COVID and with COVID. Several countries like Italy have recognized that mistake and corrected for it. Because of the hyper-partisanship of folks like you, james, and Russell, we have yet to do that. But ultimately, when the dust settles (and it seems to be settling fast), we'll see the whole panic porn episode as yet another case of mass formation psychosis. |
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Post by Cornflake on Jan 11, 2022 9:11:07 GMT -5
"ETA - The Jetelina update is interesting and graph rich."
Yes, it is interesting. Thanks.
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