Help the willfully ignorant

[Dub]

I know everyone will laugh at my self-imposed ignorance but there something I need help to understand.

Why is the word seed used when reporting on sports and what does the word mean in this context, as opposed to, say, spot or hole or place.

For years I’d hear that word in a radio newscast, a second or two before I changed the station, and I always thought they were saying “seat” or “seated.” Eventually, I saw it used in print and realized they are saying “seed.”

Today, I saw an Associated Press piece by Mark Anderson that begins as follows.

From No. 13 seed Furman beating fourth-seeded Virginia to No. 15 Princeton defeating second-seeded Arizona, most NCAA Tournament brackets were busted Thursday before the sun went down.

The NCAA March Madness Twitter account posted after Thursday’s late games concluded that only 787 brackets of unspecified millions remained perfect.

Numbers were similar elsewhere.

In ESPN’s Tournament Challenge bracket game, only 658 perfect brackets remained by the end of the first day. More than 20 million had gotten at least one of the 16 games wrong.

The headline read “March Madness bracket totally busted? You’re not alone.”

What the Sam Hill are these people talking about? (Note: I read no farther, since I couldn’t tell what they were talking about.)

I know some here are sports fans and know all this stuff as second nature, but please pity the willfully ignorant.

[brucemacneill]

Just so I don't copy something that might be copywrited, google "What does "Seed" mean in a tournament" and apparently it comes from a garden arrangement.

[coachdoc]

Many tournaments ‘seed’ the ‘bracket’ giving the best teams the easiest matchups. So the best team will play its first games against the worst teams to ease their path through the bracket.

[coachdoc]

So, as happened this weekend, the worst team beat a highly ranked team and was named a bracket buster. No team is guaranteed the next step no matter the odds for or against that team.

[Dub]

Mar 17, 2023 10:30:26 GMT -5 brucemacneill said:

Just so I don't copy something that might be copywrited, google "What does "Seed" mean in a tournament" and apparently it comes from a garden arrangement.

Taking Bruce’s excellent advice, I found this on Wikipedia.

A seed is a competitor or team in a sport or other tournament who is given a preliminary ranking for the purposes of the draw. Players/teams are "planted" into the bracket in a manner that is typically intended so that the best do not meet until later in the competition, usually based on regular season. The term was first used in tennis, and is based on the idea of laying out a tournament ladder by arranging slips of paper with the names of players on them the way seeds or seedlings are arranged in a garden: smaller plants up front, larger ones behind.

I think the garden/planting is so the taller plants, e.g. corn, don’t shade the shorter tomatoes or the even shorter beans. Every plant gets equal access to sunlight.

So, tournament “seeding” is analogous to a golfer’s handicap? It attempts to level the playing field somewhat? Or is it an attempt to get the riff-raff out of the way so they don’t annoy the big dogs?

I’m guessing the “broken brackets” thing means that a team with a poor record beat a team with a much higher record, is that it? So the peopl who are really pissed off are the gamblers.

Have I got it?

[Marty]

Mar 17, 2023 10:30:26 GMT -5 brucemacneill said:

Just so I don't copy something that might be copywrited, google "What does "Seed" mean in a tournament" and apparently it comes from a garden arrangement.

Some treasure hunters will "seed" a dive by pre-placing artifacts or treasure for investors to see brought up from a wreck to get them to throw money on the venture.

Buddy Donn and I entered a detecting contest in Ashland WI. The fee was minimal, with some nice prizes for the better finds. We would be searching streets in the old part of town that were being redone. The old brick paving was torn up to be replaced with a new surface so we would be searching the original dirt streets before brick was put in. The City folks let us know what streets we could search and not be in the way of workers. We did find some nice coins and little odds n ends. Near the end of the day a shout went up that someone found gold. Yup, a $5 gold coin, bright and shiny as the day it was made but it was found near the base of a tree not in the dirt on the street. The finder was also the guy sponsoring the hunt. He "seeded" it where he knew others would not be looking thus taking first prize of a new metal detector off the list.

[millring]

Silly me, I just always thought it was a bastardization of "-cede"

[John B]

Yes, I've often thought to myself, "that John guy up North is silly."

[Village Idiot]

Mark, I'm surprised you haven't called and asked me to explain it to you.

[drlj]

I seed a football game once at this big football place in Chicago. I was sitting way up high.

[coachdoc]

Mar 17, 2023 11:35:09 GMT -5 Dub said:

Mar 17, 2023 10:30:26 GMT -5 brucemacneill said:

Just so I don't copy something that might be copywrited, google "What does "Seed" mean in a tournament" and apparently it comes from a garden arrangement.

Taking Bruce’s excellent advice, I found this on Wikipedia.

A seed is a competitor or team in a sport or other tournament who is given a preliminary ranking for the purposes of the draw. Players/teams are "planted" into the bracket in a manner that is typically intended so that the best do not meet until later in the competition, usually based on regular season. The term was first used in tennis, and is based on the idea of laying out a tournament ladder by arranging slips of paper with the names of players on them the way seeds or seedlings are arranged in a garden: smaller plants up front, larger ones behind.

I think the garden/planting is so the taller plants, e.g. corn, don’t shade the shorter tomatoes or the even shorter beans. Every plant gets equal access to sunlight.

So, tournament “seeding” is analogous to a golfer’s handicap? It attempts to level the playing field somewhat? Or is it an attempt to get the riff-raff out of the way so they don’t annoy the big dogs?

I’m guessing the “broken brackets” thing means that a team with a poor record beat a team with a much higher record, is that it? So the peopl who are really pissed off are the gamblers.

Have I got it?

Yup. That’s it.

[david]

I like that silly John guy's explanation, which is similar to another on the net:


Rankings come from the word conceded, as in, a team is conceded to be the best. Brevity led to ‘ceded’ which led to "seed."

[John B]

After yesterday my seeds have gone to weeds (or cedes to wedes).

[Cornflake]

Close, John B. The truth is that the teams are all planted at various depths. They are watered and carefully observed to see which sprouts first, second, third, fourth, etc.

[t-bob]

I was the six seed - high school tennis team 'sophomore' early 1960s

Was there a ladder so you could change your "seed number"
I talked with a "first seed" - let's play "a set"

It only take 20 minutes - servers/nets and it was done and so I said now I'm in number one.

The number Senior "seeded" talked with the untruth the coach so there's he was number ONE now "I still want to be number one" (juvenile/adolescent)

So they changed me to go number six now I got tired of it so I still play even one number one he can't won me. I was 13 - the senior 18.

I just decided piano or guitar women drugs...... a smidge tennis and tinnitus also

My tennis rating 5.0 (50 years)


I have some seem seeds - to copy my poppy seeds/bagel


TOO TANTENTIAL - DYSNOMIA LANGUAGE DISORDERS

[jdd2]

sittin' in a sooty seedy city sipping sweet 'n sappy...?

[PaulKay]

Mar 17, 2023 11:35:09 GMT -5 Dub said:

Mar 17, 2023 10:30:26 GMT -5 brucemacneill said:

Just so I don't copy something that might be copywrited, google "What does "Seed" mean in a tournament" and apparently it comes from a garden arrangement.

Taking Bruce’s excellent advice, I found this on Wikipedia.

A seed is a competitor or team in a sport or other tournament who is given a preliminary ranking for the purposes of the draw. Players/teams are "planted" into the bracket in a manner that is typically intended so that the best do not meet until later in the competition, usually based on regular season. The term was first used in tennis, and is based on the idea of laying out a tournament ladder by arranging slips of paper with the names of players on them the way seeds or seedlings are arranged in a garden: smaller plants up front, larger ones behind.

I think the garden/planting is so the taller plants, e.g. corn, don’t shade the shorter tomatoes or the even shorter beans. Every plant gets equal access to sunlight.

So, tournament “seeding” is analogous to a golfer’s handicap? It attempts to level the playing field somewhat? Or is it an attempt to get the riff-raff out of the way so they don’t annoy the big dogs?

I’m guessing the “broken brackets” thing means that a team with a poor record beat a team with a much higher record, is that it? So the peopl who are really pissed off are the gamblers.

Have I got it?

The NFL playoffs are arranged in the same fashion based on win-loss records.
Effectively the best teams play the wild-card teams first. I assume the seeding method for college basketball is also based on win-loss record.

[Cornflake]

"TOO TANTENTIAL - DYSNOMIA LANGUAGE DISORDERS"

Bob, no, not even close. That's one guy's opinion.

[Rob Hanesworth]

By the way, Dub, once you ask for help you can no longer claim to be willfully ignorant.

[Dub]

Mar 24, 2023 11:17:36 GMT -5 Rob Hanesworth said:

By the way, Dub, once you ask for help you can no longer claim to be willfully ignorant.

I guess you have a point.

I’m reminded of A. Conan Doyle’s A Study In Scarlet in which Watson discovers that Holmes is unaware that the earth revolves around the sun. Holmes tells Watson that having learned that, he will try to forget it. He felt the knowledge wasn’t useful in solving cases and didn’t want his brain clogged with useless (to him) information. Conan Doyle was evidently referencing the then popular notion that the brain had only so much “storage space” and he wanted his detective to be aware of that.

Holmes, of course, did not seek that bit of knowledge, Watson thrust it on him, so Holmes could be considered willfully ignorant of that fact.