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Post by billhammond on May 23, 2024 22:36:59 GMT -5
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Post by martinfever on May 24, 2024 7:34:20 GMT -5
Sublime playing, great tone from, I assume, Clarence's guitar. So informative. Very cool. Thanks for the post, Hammond!
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Post by Shannon on May 24, 2024 10:49:10 GMT -5
My gosh, the guy was a genius. Plus, he made it look so easy.
I used to learn a lot by watching the hands of other players, but even watching Tony leaves me befuddled. Leo Kottke the same. Maybe if I slowed the video way down, I could catch on to more of it.
More than likely, I was just never designed to be able to play like that.
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Post by Russell Letson on May 24, 2024 10:58:37 GMT -5
There's a whole lot of jazz voicing and phrasing in there. Is this a great country or what.
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Dub
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Post by Dub on May 24, 2024 12:16:07 GMT -5
There's a whole lot of jazz voicing and phrasing in there. Is this a great country or what. Nearly anyone teaching flatpicking technique will insist that the student adhere to strict down-up pickstrokes throughout, crosspicking being the only exception. The pick moves down on each beat and up on each offbeat. This practice can help keep the rhythm steady and, once mastered, frees one’s mind to concentrate on notes and complex runs. Tony wasn't bound by that limitation. He approached it the way jazz guitarists do, he worked out the least possible pick movement between each note without regard the pick’s direction. If two consecutive notes are on different strings, he, and jazz guitarists, would arrange the passage so the pick didn’t need to change direction to play the notes. You can see this in the video Bill posted. Somebody I watched, maybe Vignola or Bruno, dwelt on this idea of learning to keep pick movement to a minimum. I work on it sometimes but it takes more concentration than this old brain has left.
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Post by Cosmic Wonder on May 24, 2024 16:06:21 GMT -5
What an amazingly talented guitarist. Sigh.
Mike
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Post by millring on May 24, 2024 18:02:41 GMT -5
The way he changed music can't be overstated.
Like most of you, I had all the Tony Rice recordings. Heck, I bought them twice because I duplicated all the vinyl with CDs when they came out and made listening more portable. And though I wasn't copying his take on Wayfaring Stranger, I was absolutely inspired by it -- the way he broke it down into the jazz-influenced intro and then the flatpicking main part. I never even tried to copy what he was doing. I knew it was over my head. But, again, I liked the feel of the way he did it and I was playing around with some chords and came up with something I liked.
One of the best musical memories of my life came when, after a Goshen jam was breaking up and folks were putting their instruments away, I started playing it. Jesse, a kid 20 years my junior at the time, and probably the best musician I've ever had the privilege of playing with had started to put his fiddle away, but then caught what I was playing. He picked the fiddle back up and improvised over what I was doing. It (to my ears anyway) couldn't have come out better if we'd rehearsed it for hours. Everyone around stopped what they were doing and listened.
I miss playing with Jesse.
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Post by TKennedy on May 24, 2024 18:31:27 GMT -5
Thanks Bill. It’s striking how his fretted notes ring out almost the same as the open strings. Sounds like a lot of sus voicings. Kind of medieval in places. I am sure a lot of players could mimic those changes but not the tone and phrasing.
So a minor second - would that be a C and Cb in the same chord or arpeggio or a C, D and Eb?
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Dub
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Post by Dub on May 24, 2024 18:35:34 GMT -5
The way he changed music can't be overstated. Like most of you, I had all the Tony Rice recordings. Heck, I bought them twice because I duplicated all the vinyl with CDs when they came out and made listening more portable. And though I wasn't copying his take on Wayfaring Stranger, I was absolutely inspired by it -- the way he broke it down into the jazz-influenced intro and then the flatpicking main part. I never even tried to copy what he was doing. I knew it was over my head. But, again, I liked the feel of the way he did it and I was playing around with some chords and came up with something I liked. One of the best musical memories of my life came when, after a Goshen jam was breaking up and folks were putting their instruments away, I started playing it. Jesse, a kid 20 years my junior at the time, and probably the best musician I've ever had the privilege of playing with had started to put his fiddle away, but then caught what I was playing. He picked the fiddle back up and improvised over what I was doing. It (to my ears anyway) couldn't have come out better if we'd rehearsed it for hours. Everyone around stopped what they were doing and listened. I miss playing with Jesse. Sadly, I'm not allowed to cause additional thumbs-up choices to appear. Like, like, like, like, like, …
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Dub
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Post by Dub on May 24, 2024 18:40:59 GMT -5
Thanks Bill. It’s striking how his fretted notes ring out almost the same as the open strings. Sounds like a lot of sus voicings. Kind of medieval in places. I am sure a lot of players could mimic those changes but not the tone and phrasing. So a minor second - would that be a C and Cb in the same chord or arpeggio or a C, D and Eb? I'm thinking that a "minor second" as a chord would really be a flat nine. You wouldn't want to hear them together a half tone appart, would you? In the key of C, B(Cb) is the major seventh. Perhaps I'm not understanding.
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Post by billhammond on May 24, 2024 18:43:49 GMT -5
This is brilliant playing, John. I am so impressed.
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Post by Cosmic Wonder on May 24, 2024 18:45:22 GMT -5
I have no idea what he is doing. But I know good music when I hear it and he’s got it in spades.
Mike
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Dub
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Post by Dub on May 24, 2024 19:02:25 GMT -5
Thanks Bill. It’s striking how his fretted notes ring out almost the same as the open strings. Sounds like a lot of sus voicings. Kind of medieval in places. I am sure a lot of players could mimic those changes but not the tone and phrasing. So a minor second - would that be a C and Cb in the same chord or arpeggio or a C, D and Eb? I'm thinking that a "minor second" as a chord would really be a flat nine. You wouldn't want to hear them together a half tone appart, would you? In the key of C, B(Cb) is the major seventh. Perhaps I'm not understanding. OK, now I understand. Grisman told Tony the interval is a minor second, which is true. But to the tonic (C), the other note is the major seventh.
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Post by TKennedy on May 24, 2024 20:19:46 GMT -5
Thanks Bill. It’s striking how his fretted notes ring out almost the same as the open strings. Sounds like a lot of sus voicings. Kind of medieval in places. I am sure a lot of players could mimic those changes but not the tone and phrasing. So a minor second - would that be a C and Cb in the same chord or arpeggio or a C, D and Eb? I'm thinking that a "minor second" as a chord would really be a flat nine. You wouldn't want to hear them together a half tone appart, would you? In the key of C, B(Cb) is the major seventh. Perhaps I'm not understanding. I actually meant Db, my bad. Yes a flat nine.
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Post by drlj on May 24, 2024 20:23:57 GMT -5
This is from a Homespun Tapes video done by Rice a few years ago. The video is basically Rice showing Happy Traum how he did things and answering Traum’s questions. Tony was so fluid in his movements. I love the way his guitar sounds and he made any guitar he played-the relic, Santa Cruz, or his Ovation-sound magnificent. He used the Ovation on Mar West, Backwaters, and the title tune on Manzanita. Most people thought it was the relic. It’s the player, not the guitar. He passed way too young.
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Post by TKennedy on May 24, 2024 20:35:24 GMT -5
It is the player. While back Michael Johnson asked me to stop by his place and look at a hand made guitar a builder from Colorado had sent him. He was ambivalent about it.
I looked at it and played it and was not too impressed with the sound. Then he played it and it was a totally different instrument. Sounded awesome.
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Dub
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Post by Dub on May 24, 2024 20:37:14 GMT -5
I'm thinking that a "minor second" as a chord would really be a flat nine. You wouldn't want to hear them together a half tone appart, would you? In the key of C, B(Cb) is the major seventh. Perhaps I'm not understanding. I actually meant Db, my bad. Yes a flat nine. Later in the clip, Tony makes it clear he's using the major seventh, I think, not the flat nine. I could be wrong.
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Post by TKennedy on May 24, 2024 21:03:30 GMT -5
The good old major minor seventh. Sounds like a character from Catch 22
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Post by John B on May 25, 2024 7:03:54 GMT -5
So, for someone who is not so much a fan of Norman Blake-style repertoire, but is interested in learning more about Tony Rice, where do you all suggest as a starting point? I might lean towards ensemble playing, but solo is good, too.
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Post by howard lee on May 25, 2024 9:24:15 GMT -5
So, for someone who is not so much a fan of Norman Blake-style repertoire, but is interested in learning more about Tony Rice, where do you all suggest as a starting point? I might lean towards ensemble playing, but solo is good, too.
I suggest starting with this mostly solo album:
After that, there is a plethora—JD Crowe and the New South, The Bluegrass Album Band, Tony Rice Unit recordings, as well as studio work he did for a host of other musicians. And there is plenty of stuff on YouTube.
Check this one out.
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