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Post by aquaduct on Jun 20, 2024 20:59:03 GMT -5
Boy, makes me miss the Trump days when Israel was honored, and Iran was broke. I wonder whatever happened to that. Here is another perspective: “Here's the facts. When Donald Trump came into office, Iran was over a year from being able to achieve a nuclear weapon. By the time President Trump left office, that breakout time had dropped to months. When President Trump came to office, proxies of Iran were strong. When he left office, they were just as strong, if not stronger. This idea that Iran stopped sending money to Hezbollah during Trump's presidency is just wrong. $700 million was the annual amount of support delivered from Iran in the middle of Trump's presidency; [and] that's what was being delivered at the end of his presidency. There were no attacks on US forces in Iraq when Donald Trump became president. From 2019 to 2020, attacks on US forces in Iraq increased by 400%. It got so bad that Secretary Pompeo started to close down the embassy in Baghdad because it had become so dangerous. Attacks on US forces raised to epidemic levels from the beginning of Trump's presidency to the end. The anti-Iran coalition wasn't strengthened, it was shattered. We had Russia and China on board with the JCPOA. By the end of the Trump presidency, Europe wasn't supporting our Trump politics, our Iran policy, they were undermining it.” www.murphy.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/murphy-president-trumps-policy-towards-iran-was-a-disasterA press release, seriously, a press release from a Democrat Senator in response to the testimony of a former U.S. Special Representative for Iran and Senior Policy Advisor to the Secretary of State in a public Congressional hearing. And, unfairly, without even offering up what Brian Hook actually said. The usual verbal diarrhea. Ends with, "Am I wrong about any of those things? I don't think I am." I wonder what Brian had to say as an answer. Sounds like hearsay to me. |
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Post by david on Jun 20, 2024 23:52:33 GMT -5
Peter, When you open yourself up to crazy, big generalizations, like, Trump good, Biden bad crap, it requires a response. You didn't like the response, and I understand that. But Murphy's summation is more accurate and more pertinent than your Trump good Biden bad bating.
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Post by aquaduct on Jun 21, 2024 5:09:10 GMT -5
Peter, When you open yourself up to crazy, big generalizations, like, Trump good, Biden bad crap, it requires a response. You didn't like the response, and I understand that. But Murphy's summation is more accurate and more pertinent than your Trump good Biden bad bating. David, I didn't start this thread. I didn't mischaracterize Trump's comments. I didn't ignore what actually got us into this Russia/Ukraine mess. I haven't conveniently forgotten who's President since 2020. I haven't forgotten 13 dead soldiers in Kabul and an administration who pulled the guys with guns out of Afghanistan before he pulled the rest of the Americans out. Biden's had 4 years to try to establish his competence and has failed miserably. The pull quote is one sided political hackery. With no reference to what Brian Hook actually testified to that set the Senator off. Meanwhile, yesterday the SC rejected Colorado's attempt to keep Trump off November's ballot. And at some point this next week, they may destroy EPAs ability to regulate CO2. And I still miss Trump. |
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Post by epaul on Jun 21, 2024 9:46:33 GMT -5
Biden didn't pull the guys with guns out before the civilians. At the beginning of the Trump administration there were approximately 13,000 American troops in Afghanistan. By the end of the Trump administration in January, 2021, there were 2,500 American troops in Afghanistan. Due to the rapid advance of Taliban forces, Biden began expanding the number of American troops in Afghanistan, bringing the total up to 7,000 by August 15, 2021. The last American military plane left Kabul on August 30, 2021. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020%E2%80%932021_U.S._troop_withdrawal_from_Afghanistan#:~:text=At%20the%20start%20of%20the,withdrawal%20symbolically%20by%2011%20September. It was chaotic. As was the final withdrawal from Vietnam. As was the final withdrawal from any failed military campaign in the history of the planet. As with Vietnam, the native troops we had spend years training, equipping, and supporting disappeared into the woods and mountains the moment the paychecks stopped. And the bad guys advanced without opposition. Ten times faster than our intelligence had projected. Was it botched. Yes. Dunkirks are rare. The 13 killed was the result of a terrorist action, not bad guy military action (small group bomb planting). Terrorist casualties have marked several administrations, including Reagan and Bush. There is an unaccountability factor to terrorist attacks. Argue the above as you will, it is not true to say the Biden pulled the guys with guns out before the civilians. He increased the guys with guns over the level Trump had left in country. |
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Post by Cornflake on Jun 21, 2024 9:49:09 GMT -5
"It was chaotic. As was the final withdrawal from Vietnam. As was the final withdrawal from any failed military campaign in the history of the planet." And no Americans have died in combat there since we got out.
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Post by coachdoc on Jun 21, 2024 11:41:18 GMT -5
Can I be anti-Zionist but not anti Semitic?
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Post by Russell Letson on Jun 21, 2024 11:50:56 GMT -5
It's worth pointing out that the idea of "Zionism" is no more monolithic than that of, say, "democracy."
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Post by coachdoc on Jun 21, 2024 12:04:33 GMT -5
It's worth pointing out that the idea of "Zionism" is no more monolithic than that of, say, "democracy." I disagree. Zionism has to do with the state of Israel, not with prejudice toward Jews. |
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Post by TKennedy on Jun 21, 2024 12:10:12 GMT -5
"It was chaotic. As was the final withdrawal from Vietnam. As was the final withdrawal from any failed military campaign in the history of the planet." And no Americans have died in combat there since we got out. Not to mention the British and Russian withdrawals. |
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Post by aquaduct on Jun 21, 2024 12:26:37 GMT -5
Biden didn't pull the guys with guns out before the civilians. At the beginning of the Trump administration there were approximately 13,000 American troops in Afghanistan. By the end of the Trump administration in January, 2021, there were 2,500 American troops in Afghanistan. Due to the rapid advance of Taliban forces, Biden began expanding the number of American troops in Afghanistan, bringing the total up to 7,000 by August 15, 2021. The last American military plane left Kabul on August 30, 2021. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020%E2%80%932021_U.S._troop_withdrawal_from_Afghanistan#:~:text=At%20the%20start%20of%20the,withdrawal%20symbolically%20by%2011%20September. It was chaotic. As was the final withdrawal from Vietnam. As was the final withdrawal from any failed military campaign in the history of the planet. As with Vietnam, the native troops we had spend years training, equipping, and supporting disappeared into the woods and mountains the moment the paychecks stopped. And the bad guys advanced without opposition. Ten times faster than our intelligence had projected. Was it botched. Yes. Dunkirks are rare. The 13 killed was the result of a terrorist action, not bad guy military action (small group bomb planting). Terrorist casualties have marked several administrations, including Reagan and Bush. There is an unaccountability factor to terrorist attacks. Argue the above as you will, it is not true to say the Biden pulled the guys with guns out before the civilians. He increased the guys with guns over the level Trump had left in country. They closed and abandoned Bagram (abandoning a ton of useful equipment and weapons) before they started getting the folks in Kabul out. What kind of moron does that? Biden says the military folks did that. The military folks say Biden ordered it. I guess we'll never know now that we're f'ing around with the Russia/Ukraine cluster. Wasn't that only supposed to last a couple months at most? |
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Post by Cornflake on Jun 21, 2024 12:39:41 GMT -5
"Can I be anti-Zionist but not anti Semitic?"
Yes.
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Post by epaul on Jun 21, 2024 12:58:18 GMT -5
Many Semites practice antisemitism. Which is ironic.
Se·mit·ic
/səˈmidik/
adjective
1.
relating to or denoting a family of languages that includes Hebrew, Arabic, and Aramaic and certain ancient languages such as Phoenician and Akkadian, constituting the main subgroup of the Afro-Asiatic family.
2.
relating to the peoples who speak Semitic languages, especially Hebrew and Arabic
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Post by epaul on Jun 21, 2024 13:08:51 GMT -5
I agree the withdrawal from Afghanistan was botched. As was the beginning and the middle. Botched, Botched, Botched. And I don't believe there was any way to have done it un-botched, any of it. The botching was inevitable. Unavoidable.
Go back in time and put any group of second-guessers you want in charge and the end result would be the same, Botched!
Give us a second chance down the road to act in a similar situation knowing what we know now and the result would be the same, Botched!
There are some things that just can't be done well. Trying to forcefully change a group of people you don't understand into something they don't understand is one of them.
Banjo orchestras is another.
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Post by Russell Letson on Jun 21, 2024 19:39:24 GMT -5
It's worth pointing out that the idea of "Zionism" is no more monolithic than that of, say, "democracy." I disagree. Zionism has to do with the state of Israel, not with prejudice toward Jews. I'm not addressing the Zionism/antisemitism nexus but the different ideas about what a Jewish state should be--specifically secular or religious (which is to say theocratic). The Wikipedia article on the History of Zionism follows its complexities from the 19th century onward. And even the current news makes it clear that the Zionism of, say, many mainstream American Jews differs from that of the settler movement(s) in Israel. |
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