Well?

[theevan]

Washington, first in the hearts of his countrymen.

[howard lee]

Jul 6, 2024 11:09:27 GMT -5 Cornflake said:

Biden's problems have deflected attention from the fact that Trump is increasingly incoherent. Much more so than four years ago. I don't mean that in a snarky way but pretty much literally.

Does this election have a reset button somewhere?

"One prominent psychologist and psychotherapist is warning that former President Donald Trump is deep in the throes of cognitive decline, and that his dementia is only worsening by the day."

Read more:  www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/falling-off-the-cliff-dementia-expert-shows-4-ways-trump-is-exhibiting-shocking-decline/ar-BB1ndHeN

There are quite a few members of both parties who would make viable replacement candidates—and they are all younger and appear to be mentally healthy. My head is just spinning here.

[millring]

Not to put too fine a point on it, but you guys didn't recognize the decline in Biden. Your sources told you he was fine. You believed that any word to the contrary was right wing propaganda. And now you expect anyone to trust your sources saying that Trump is the one in decline? That's rich.

[millring]

Jul 6, 2024 7:59:34 GMT -5 Marshall said:

You've got some splainin' to do, Lucy. (millring)

I suspect you mean that Biden has become more of a figurehead for the Administrative State. It certainly becomes obvious when his personal capacity comes into question. Trump, on the other hand is not beholden to anybody for anything.

Really it's just the incredulity with which I view the whole thing. Our choice is between two quite obviously incapable men and instead of somehow joining together as concerned citizens and storming the gates and demanding better choices, we remain divided arguing over whose*insert disgusting metaphor* stinks the least.

I simply can't believe we're at this juncture and acting as if it's normal.

I know how the Republicans ended up with Trump. What's the Democrats excuse?

[aquaduct]

I haven't seen any decline in Trump.

But then pretty much all y'all have been singing these tall tales at the top of your lungs for 7 years.

I still wonder when Qanon is going to storm DC.

[millring]

Jul 6, 2024 14:51:42 GMT -5 aquaduct said:

I haven't seen any decline in Trump.

But then pretty much all y'all have been singing these tall tails at the top of your lungs for 7 years.

I still wonder when Qanon is going to storm DC.

The latest is "Project 2024". I had to Google it up to find out what it is. Apparently it's the conservative plan to take over the country and make it safe for bigots again, but the only people I have heard mention it are from the extreme left.

[howard lee]

Jul 6, 2024 14:35:16 GMT -5 millring said:

Not to put too fine a point on it, but you guys didn't recognize the decline in Biden. Your sources told you he was fine. You believed that any word to the contrary was right wing propaganda. And now you expect anyone to trust your sources saying that Trump is the one in decline? That's rich.

"You guys?"

You mean cornflake and me? Not true. I have seen for a long time that, despite the positive changes to come out of his administration, President Biden is a doddering old guy and that the Presidency would be better served by a younger candidate with smarts and more vigor and stamina, as well as vision. The only reason I would vote for Biden, if he will indeed be the Democratic candidate, is because I wouldn't vote for Trump, who established his reputation here in New York 47 years ago. He was a crooked real estate hustler then, and little has changed. It has only gotten worse.

I understand why the people in his base support him—his morals and actions are in lockstep with their own. Being like Trump excites them and makes them feel less significant in a world they can't understand. Of course, it's also much easier for those people to let someone else think for them and tell them where they stand on important issues, rather than educating themselves and forming their own opinions and thoughts. Kind of like what happened to ordinary citizens in Germany in the 1930s.

I have to admit it, for all its quirks and plot twists, I really like democracy and appreciate the freedoms we have always enjoyed in this country, that the Project 2025 MAGA Republicans are champing at the bit to take away from us. After suffering under the boot of the Third Reich in Europe in the 1940s, my parents came to this country for a reason, and I assure you it wasn't so they or their children could be ruled by a fascist regime again.

[billhammond]

Jul 6, 2024 14:53:47 GMT -5 millring said:

The latest is "Project 2024 2025". I had to Google it up to find out what it is. Apparently it's the conservative plan to take over the country and make it safe for bigots again, but the only people I have heard mention it are from the extreme left.

I've been seeing it in lots of media. The Heritage Foundation is key to its inner workings.

[John B]

Jul 6, 2024 14:35:16 GMT -5 millring said:

Not to put too fine a point on it, but you guys didn't recognize the decline in Biden. Your sources told you he was fine. You believed that any word to the contrary was right wing propaganda. And now you expect anyone to trust your sources saying that Trump is the one in decline? That's rich.

Was it not recognized, or just wished not to be happening, signs ignored, etc.?

[John B]

Jul 6, 2024 14:53:47 GMT -5 millring said:

Jul 6, 2024 14:51:42 GMT -5 aquaduct said:

I haven't seen any decline in Trump.

But then pretty much all y'all have been singing these tall tails at the top of your lungs for 7 years.

I still wonder when Qanon is going to storm DC.

The latest is "Project 20242025". I had to Google it up to find out what it is. Apparently it's the conservative plan to take over the country and make it safe for bigots again, but the only people I have heard mention it are from the extreme left.

Pretend it's Critical Race Theory several years ago, when the only people who had heard of it were from the extreme right.

And:

www.project2025.org/

[millring]

Funny, I typed 2025 and the came back to edit the post, assuming that I must be wrong.

[millring]

If we end up in fascism, it's not going to be coming from the American right. It will definitely come from the American left.

The left defines limits on abortion as fascism, meanwhile, it is they who embrace and empower themselves with the decidedly undemocratic administrative regulatory State , and limit speech on the Internet and airwaves.

The left even sees limiting government as fascism, as backwards as that might be.

[John B]

Jul 6, 2024 15:58:29 GMT -5 millring said:

If we end up in fascism, it's not going to be coming from the American right. It will definitely come from the American left.

The left defines limits on abortion as fascism, meanwhile, it is they who embrace and empower themselves with the decidedly undemocratic administrative regulatory State , and limit speech on the Internet and airwaves.

It's so interesting you see shadowy figures lurking in the shadows of the left while ignoring what's actually occurring on the right. And by the way, narrowly limiting concerns about fascism to restrictions on medical freedom is a nice touch.

[aquaduct]

Jul 6, 2024 15:10:58 GMT -5 howard lee said:

Jul 6, 2024 14:35:16 GMT -5 millring said:

Not to put too fine a point on it, but you guys didn't recognize the decline in Biden. Your sources told you he was fine. You believed that any word to the contrary was right wing propaganda. And now you expect anyone to trust your sources saying that Trump is the one in decline? That's rich.

"You guys?"

You mean cornflake and me? Not true. I have seen for a long time that, despite the positive changes to come out of his administration, President Biden is a doddering old guy and that the Presidency would be better served by a younger candidate with smarts and more vigor and stamina, as well as vision. The only reason I would vote for Biden, if he will indeed be the Democratic candidate, is because I wouldn't vote for Trump, who established his reputation here in New York 47 years ago. He was a crooked real estate hustler then, and little has changed. It has only gotten worse.

I understand why the people in his base support him—his morals and actions are in lockstep with their own. Being like Trump excites them and makes them feel less significant in a world they can't understand. Of course, it's also much easier for those people to let someone else think for them and tell them where they stand on important issues, rather than educating themselves and forming their own opinions and thoughts. Kind of like what happened to ordinary citizens in Germany in the 1930s.

I have to admit it, for all its quirks and plot twists, I really like democracy and appreciate the freedoms we have always enjoyed in this country, that the Project 2025 MAGA Republicans are champing at the bit to take away from us. After suffering under the boot of the Third Reich in Europe in the 1940s, my parents came to this country for a reason, and I assure you it wasn't so they or their children could be ruled by a fascist regime again.

None of that is true. And if you really wanted to worry about Hitler reincarnate, you'd take a look at liberals. Specifically, the little college shits currently chanting "From the river to the sea" all over college campuses.

And the asshole environazis that have been actively working to destroy our economy for 40 years. Thank God Trump's Supreme Court blew that crap up a little over a week ago.

And what did Trump supporters actually do? Well here, where a lot of us live, we finally got to be able to work and enjoy some additional coin in our pockets. And celebrate things like keeping that coin in our pockets with low inflation. And moving the US Embassy to Jerusalem proper- no wonder Hamas would never attempt October 7 under Trump. And keeping Iran broke and harmless. And not worrying about Russia invading anybody. And not burning down massive portions of major cities just to watch them burn. And controlling illegal immigration. And not colluding with China to release a virus so a couple pharmaceutical companies could create another couple dozen billionaires. And mobilizing the Army Corp of Engineers to help cope with that disease. And stopping the nightly assaults on Bagram. And blowing up a couple of the terrorist dickheads, one of them with a MOAB. How cool was that?

And being the first President in a while who finished his term without getting us into a new war.

I look around and only see Trump's efforts to get government and others out of our shorts and re-establish the greatness that once was America. A fascist wouldn't dare give us more freedom.

But don't turn around, liberals are hot on that trail.

[millring]

Jul 6, 2024 16:10:20 GMT -5 John B said:

Jul 6, 2024 15:58:29 GMT -5 millring said:

If we end up in fascism, it's not going to be coming from the American right. It will definitely come from the American left.

The left defines limits on abortion as fascism, meanwhile, it is they who embrace and empower themselves with the decidedly undemocratic administrative regulatory State , and limit speech on the Internet and airwaves.

It's so interesting you see shadowy figures lurking in the shadows of the left while ignoring what's actually occurring on the right. And by the way, narrowly limiting concerns about fascism to restrictions on medical freedom is a nice touch.

What are you talking about? You are exceptional in your willingness to congratulate Peter on the latest ruling about the regulative state, but you certainly realize that that state is entirely progressive in its philosophical undergirding.

Conservative philosophy is at its core all about limiting government. Progressive philosophy is all about expanding government. Which philosophy do you really think would lead to fascism?

[howard lee]

Peter, I express my feelings here, and you deny them? I hope your vision of a great new America works out well for everyone.

Obviously, each of us has his own perspective on what has been going on in our country, contingent on how we have been imprinted by our upbringings and experience. When those perspectives differ, we each hang on adamantly to our points of view and so far, I have seen no argument from any perspective that would change the view of a differing perspective, or change my view. It's the main reason I rarely jump into these political threads. Plus, I am a Moderator, so there's that, too.

[millring]

And Peter is right. It sure isn't the American right celebrating the new rise in antisemitism. It's the American progressive demanding Israel's surrender.

[theevan]

Jul 6, 2024 15:23:24 GMT -5 John B said:

Jul 6, 2024 14:35:16 GMT -5 millring said:

Not to put too fine a point on it, but you guys didn't recognize the decline in Biden. Your sources told you he was fine. You believed that any word to the contrary was right wing propaganda. And now you expect anyone to trust your sources saying that Trump is the one in decline? That's rich.

Was it not recognized, or just wished not to be happening, signs ignored, etc.?

To a certain extent, yes, JohnB.

A tendency propped up, I believe, by the willful (or subconscious?) failure to show glaring examples of the the ongoing decline. It's the only explanation I can come up with for the sudden "omigosh, he's senile!" reactions. As if it had not been noticed before.

Me, I can't wait for this election cycle to be over. The rhetoric, angst, anger and craziness that ramps up out there tends to leak into our calm space here. I pray the nation as a whole will remain calm the "morning after".

[John B]

Jul 6, 2024 16:35:58 GMT -5 millring said:

Jul 6, 2024 16:10:20 GMT -5 John B said:

It's so interesting you see shadowy figures lurking in the shadows of the left while ignoring what's actually occurring on the right. And by the way, narrowly limiting concerns about fascism to restrictions on medical freedom is a nice touch.

What are you talking about? You are exceptional in your willingness to congratulate Peter on the latest ruling about the regulative state, but you certainly realize that that state is entirely progressive in its philosophical undergirding.

Conservative philosophy is at its core all about limiting government. Progressive philosophy is all about expanding government. Which philosophy do you really think would lead to fascism?

Just because I congratulate Peter on the limitations of Chevron doesn't mean I think an administrative function isn't necessary. Especially when Congress abdigates its responsibility to come up with rules for how to execute the laws they pass. Administrative function keeps gas flowing in the pumps, food being as safe as it is, etc. When there is profit in cutting corners, people, companies, whoever will prioritize profit over doing the right thing if (1) they don't think they're going to get caught and/or (2) any penalties for not doing the right thing are ineffective.

You can argue about what "the right thing" is. You can argue about how much regulation is appropriate or needed. But deciding that no regulation of any kind is needed, or should be enforced, is bullshit (edited after the fact: or if not bullshit at least it's not feasible for a functioning society). Especially when it comes to the IRS and how much funding is needed in order to make sure honest Americans aren't being taken advantage of.

If "the right" followed any sort of conservative philosophy you might have a point. And please, please point to an actual conservative in government. The party of Trump is all about forcing their beliefs on everyone else and punishing anyone who disagrees.


And further, the best protection against fascism is at least TWO functioning political parties to guard against the excesses of the other. Either side is capable of fascism of some sort.

[howard lee]

Jul 6, 2024 17:22:35 GMT -5 millring said:

And Peter is right-leaning. It sure isn't the American right celebrating the new rise in antisemitism. It's the American progressive demanding Israel's surrender.

Fixed it for you.

"It sure isn't the American right celebrating the new rise in antisemitism."

Not yet; they haven't had the chance to finalize the theo-fascist, white supremacist aristocracy in government and install their orange puppet king. If that happens, anti-Semitism will rise openly in their ranks too (as if it isn't there already, right along with other forms of racism, sexism, xenophobia, and misogyny). My father, survivor of six Nazi labor camps, always said, "You don't think it could happen here in the US? Think again." I am now officially thinking again.

"It's the American progressive demanding Israel's surrender."

I'd like to see you paint with a finer-bristle brush. I am an American progressive and I am certainly not demanding Israel's surrender, nor do I agree with Netanyahu's policies. A cease-fire would be a good start on the road to some sort of peace. Surrender? Israel won't surrender to the demands of a terrorist organization. Would you, if terrorists from Michigan (like the ones who plotted to kidnap and murder Governor Whitmer) invaded Indiana and took a hundred hostages, maybe some of whom were your friends or family?