Biden drops out

[billhammond]

Jul 31, 2024 9:03:29 GMT -5 brucemacneill said:

Now that Harris is reversing her positions on a lot of things, just remember she's a Democrat so she is lying. She's a joke.

Good thing Trump always speaks The Truth.

[Russell Letson]

Jul 31, 2024 8:11:56 GMT -5 millring said:

Or you could look at the bill and detect the poison pill in it.

Or one could be specific and point out the pill.

(FWIW, a search on "immigration bill poison pill" yields stories from 2013-2022, with only three referencing the 2024 bill--and in two of those cases, the poison-pill remark came from Democrats. The bill was killed by Republicans. The third tied the pill to Mike Johnson's anti-Ukraine-aid position.)

[aquaduct]

Jul 31, 2024 9:30:59 GMT -5 Russell Letson said:

Jul 31, 2024 8:11:56 GMT -5 millring said:

Or you could look at the bill and detect the poison pill in it.

Or one could be specific and point out the pill.

(FWIW, a search on "immigration bill poison pill" yields stories from 2013-2022, with only three referencing the 2024 bill--and in two of those cases, the poison-pill remark came from Democrats. The bill was killed by Republicans. The third tied the pill to Mike Johnson's anti-Ukraine-aid position.)

So billions of dollars that have disappeared down some Ukrainian rabbit is the legendary poison-pill.

Good job. You nailed that one.

See how easy that was?

And you're also getting a glimpse of why Loper is so significant (overturning Chevron and such).

Congress just might have to get back to compromise in order to get anything done other than spending money that doesn't exist.

Nice job.

[brucemacneill]

Jul 31, 2024 9:30:59 GMT -5 Russell Letson said:

Jul 31, 2024 8:11:56 GMT -5 millring said:

Or you could look at the bill and detect the poison pill in it.

Or one could be specific and point out the pill.

(FWIW, a search on "immigration bill poison pill" yields stories from 2013-2022, with only three referencing the 2024 bill--and in two of those cases, the poison-pill remark came from Democrats. The bill was killed by Republicans. The third tied the pill to Mike Johnson's anti-Ukraine-aid position.)

[brucemacneill]

Jul 31, 2024 9:10:21 GMT -5 billhammond said:

Jul 31, 2024 9:03:29 GMT -5 brucemacneill said:

Now that Harris is reversing her positions on a lot of things, just remember she's a Democrat so she is lying. She's a joke.

Good thing Trump always speaks The Truth.

Actually, he's never lied to me on anything. She's going "Drill baby drill" and close the border today.

[jdd2]

I wonder if trump still portrays himself as swedish, or now calls himself german.

(Or as white, or orange... Come on, like which one is it?!?)

[millring]

I don't recall either party ever being as organized as the Dems have been in the wake of the disastrous debate ... leadership and rank & file both.

So, if Biden was up 10 points over Trump before the debate would he still have been forced out? I mean think about that. One interesting take away from all this is if your guy is polling bad enough you can just replace him at the last minute and get two bites at the apple.

Trump's appearance at the NABJ conference amplified a few political realities:

Trump doesn't know how or when to shut up. He is his own worst enemy. But if you graded political bravery on a scale of 1-10, Trump scored an 11 by being willing to walk right into the lion's den. I can't imagine a mirror scenario. In fact, I've tried to come up with a corollary group of journalists before whom Harris could similarly appear for inquisition. I was appalled by Trump's answers, but considerably less so once I heard the introduction and the questions.

It highlights a reality for the rest of the campaign. Harris will never face a tough question until she is president. She would never face a hostile audience like the NAJB was to Trump. In fact, every journalist is her advocate. Every news story is a Harris campaign ad.

I don't recall either party ever being as organized as the Dems have been in the wake of the disastrous debate ... leadership and rank & file both.

You're right. The world has changed since Trump. The press doesn't even try to affect a veneer of objectivity anymore. The party -- The Democrats and their National Press -- is as united as they have ever been. We have our very own Pravda.

[kbcolorado]

I'm not sure your point holds up unless you acknowledge that we have two "Pravdas."

I was considering this question yesterday ... if we were to go back 30 years and have one person die (unexpectedly, natural causes) ... which single human's absence would most change the US political landscape we have today?

I would suggest Rupert Murdoch, and also argue that it isn't particularly close.

[Cornflake]

KB Paul, I find the question interesting.

There are historians who think that key individuals have played a disproportionate role in history. There are other historians who think that general historical trends were more important. E.g., if Luther hadn't ignited the Reformation, someone else would have. I tend towards a modified version of the latter view.

For decades, significant numbers of Americans have felt ignored and disdained. They think they've gotten shafted by the global economy and by liberal immigration policies. They're not entirely wrong, IMO. If Donald Trump hadn't spoken up for them, I think someone else would have. If Murdoch hadn't provided them with a congenial slant on the news, someone else would have. There was a big demand for it. Someone would have supplied it.

During the same time period, old prejudices based on race, ethnicity and sexual orientation have been diminishing. Demographics were changing. Obama showed how much had changed. But if it hadn't been Obama in 2008, it would have been somebody else in 2012 or 2016.

I can't think of any prominent person in my lifetime who did more than facilitate a change that was coming anyway, one way or another. But I'm often wrong.

[millring]

Aug 2, 2024 9:56:27 GMT -5 kbcolorado said:

I'm not sure your point holds up unless you acknowledge that we have two "Pravdas."

I don't think so. We have the press and we have right wing media. Even those who access right wing sources cannot escape the press. It uses the Democrat's language to frame every debate. And those (like almost everyone here) who follow events never access what they believe to be right wing sources.

[epaul]

Let's recap...

Trump had spent the week claiming Harris was originally ashamed to be black and bragged up her Indian half. Then she realized it was more advantageous to be black as blacks get all kinds of free stuff, including jobs they aren't qualified for, like her VP gig; Kamala Harris didn't deserve the job, wasn't qualified, she was a diversity hire, not legit.

Then Trump shows up in front of the black journalists' convention, a group that has fought to get their jobs and supports their fellow members that have these few jobs and probably has become a little irritated with a presidential candidate who has been using his megaphone to tell his audience that blacks aren't qualified to hold the jobs they have because they got them only because they were black and were diversity hires (a hugely popular message with his white base).

So, Trump shows up in front of this organization whose purpose is to support and advocate for their members, and the very first question he gets is, "Why are you saying Kamala Harris was ashamed to be black until she realized being black could get her jobs she wasn't qualified for and didn't deserve?"

If it was a little testy, it still was an understandable question and a fair one, and it deserved an answer:

["because I am an opportunistic lying sack of shit and I think it will get me votes because I am prone to extreme and harmful misrepresentations when I think I they will benefit me."]


Anyway, that's the event that got you off on this well-worn and grooved track of yours triggered this longstanding and understandable concern of yours?




[my near death experience while oiling my trombone slide has prompted a new, kinder, political Paul. It will be a long 100 days.]

[theevan]

Overnight, everyone is now calling Vance & Trump "weird". It's like a message from on high (or from down below) was downloaded into the collective psyche and it's all you hear. Creepy Brave New World stuff. This has been going on for years, this "weird" echo chamber.

[Cornflake]

The “weird” stuff apparently started with Tim Walz. It has drawn criticism. I don’t think name-calling helps.

[John B]

Aug 2, 2024 12:09:18 GMT -5 theevan said:

Overnight, everyone is now calling Vance & Trump "weird". It's like a message from on high (or from down below) was downloaded into the collective psyche and it's all you hear. Creepy Brave New World stuff. This has been going on for years, this "weird" echo chamber.

Groomer is another example.

[millring]

Aug 2, 2024 9:56:27 GMT -5 kbcolorado said:

I would suggest Rupert Murdoch, and also argue that it isn't particularly close.

Probably Matt Drudge and it wouldn't be particularly close. Though it would have been anyone who was the first to use the Internet to level the information playing field.

[Russell Letson]

Is it not impossible that somebody (in this case Tim Walz) finally found a kinda mild way of labeling Trump/Vance/MAGA attitudes and behaviors that resonates with the way many non-Trump/Vance/MAGA people have been seeing things for a long time? "Going viral" is, in its original sense, a spontaneous process, a matter of something--a video, a picturer, a catchphrase--catching our collective attention and getting passed around quickly. Walz is a pretty sharp politician, but he doesn't strike me as a calculated propagandist. He just found a term that struck a lot of people (me included) as apt. Not that calculated and experienced propagandists (that is, PR flacks, campaign managers, talking heads, and other pro-level attitude massagers) won't take a good line and run with it. This particular one is less toxic than, say, "welfare queen" or "groomer" or "DEI hire."

And c'mon--Trump's brand of ham-handed race-baiting and locker-room misogyny, and Vance's patent opportunism aren't weird? How about creepy?

[aquaduct]

Aug 2, 2024 5:26:55 GMT -5 millring said:

I don't recall either party ever being as organized as the Dems have been in the wake of the disastrous debate ... leadership and rank & file both.

So, if Biden was up 10 points over Trump before the debate would he still have been forced out? I mean think about that. One interesting take away from all this is if your guy is polling bad enough you can just replace him at the last minute and get two bites at the apple.

Trump's appearance at the NABJ conference amplified a few political realities:

Trump doesn't know how or when to shut up. He is his own worst enemy. But if you graded political bravery on a scale of 1-10, Trump scored an 11 by being willing to walk right into the lion's den. I can't imagine a mirror scenario. In fact, I've tried to come up with a corollary group of journalists before whom Harris could similarly appear for inquisition. I was appalled by Trump's answers, but considerably less so once I heard the introduction and the questions.

It highlights a reality for the rest of the campaign. Harris will never face a tough question until she is president. She would never face a hostile audience like the NAJB was to Trump. In fact, every journalist is her advocate. Every news story is a Harris campaign ad.

I don't recall either party ever being as organized as the Dems have been in the wake of the disastrous debate ... leadership and rank & file both.

You're right. The world has changed since Trump. The press doesn't even try to affect a veneer of objectivity anymore. The party -- The Democrats and their National Press -- is as united as they have ever been. We have our very own Pravda.

Someone pointed out yesterday that that particular event seemed to get minimal play from the left and their usual media pawns.

Quite surprising I must say.

But my theory is that we haven't even gotten to the Democratic convention and the actual nomination of Harris. So to avoid stealing that thunder, the Democrats are ignoring it. Most likely because Trump's take on the most radically leftist candidate in history can't be answered honestly. Therefore the best hope is just not answering at all.

[RickW]

And shall we talk about how the left wing press talked about nothing but the fact that Biden was a mess, too senile to continue, after that debate? And that nothing sidetracked that train of reporting until he quit? NYT, CNN, hardly talked about anything else.

Trump is very much his own worst enemy. Of course, his style worked for him in the past, at least, defeating Hillary Clinton; he managed to paint her with his “lock her up” declarations nicely. So, the fact that the Dems stumbled on the term “weird”, and it seems to stick, is plain old political tit for tat. The GOP is trying to paint Harris as a DEI choice, which seems like it could backfire badly. I guess we’ll see.

As to Harris facing a hostile audience, her own presidential run was not exactly easy. She apparently learned from that.

[theevan]

Aug 2, 2024 15:40:25 GMT -5 RickW said:

And shall we talk about how the left wing press talked about nothing but the fact that Biden was a mess, too senile to continue, after that debate? And that nothing sidetracked that train of reporting until he quit? NYT, CNN, hardly talked about anything else.

And prior to the debate the drumbeat was that Biden was at the top of his game. And it was a drumbeat.

[aquaduct]

Aug 2, 2024 15:52:11 GMT -5 theevan said:

Aug 2, 2024 15:40:25 GMT -5 RickW said:

And shall we talk about how the left wing press talked about nothing but the fact that Biden was a mess, too senile to continue, after that debate? And that nothing sidetracked that train of reporting until he quit? NYT, CNN, hardly talked about anything else.

And prior to the debate the drumbeat was that Biden was at the top of his game. And it was a drumbeat.

And Harris seems to have adopted Biden's original strategy of hiding and campaigning in his basement. Because his senility has been sliding for quite a while.