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Post by millring on Jul 29, 2024 19:18:43 GMT -5
Keep in mind that political parties aren’t provided for in the Constitution. They have their own rules and, as far as I know, are free to pick candidates any way they choose. To have a say in selecting candidates one needs to be directly involved in the work of the party, attend party functions, and stuff like that. It’s more than just checking a box somewhere. The process differs between parties and between states. So it doesn't bother you that she never won a single primary nor will she face an open convention? It doesn't bother you that no other names are even being talked about, much less considered? How did everyone suddenly change their minds in unison? |
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Post by millring on Jul 29, 2024 19:30:34 GMT -5
Wasn't there an old joke about... I don't belong to any organized party. I'm a Democrat?
How did you get so organized that Biden "handed it off" in an unprecedented way without any disagreement?
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Post by John B on Jul 29, 2024 19:32:29 GMT -5
Keep in mind that political parties aren’t provided for in the Constitution. They have their own rules and, as far as I know, are free to pick candidates any way they choose. To have a say in selecting candidates one needs to be directly involved in the work of the party, attend party functions, and stuff like that. It’s more than just checking a box somewhere. The process differs between parties and between states. So it doesn't bother you that she never won a single primary nor will she face an open convention? It doesn't bother you that no other names are even being talked about, much less considered? How did everyone suddenly change their minds in unison? It only takes a few people, John, far less than one might think. And it doesn't even have to be a conspiracy. It's rigged, the other guys have it fixed. |
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Dub
Administrator
I'm gettin' so the past is the only thing I can remember.
Posts: 20,473 
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Post by Dub on Jul 29, 2024 19:36:42 GMT -5
Keep in mind that political parties aren’t provided for in the Constitution. They have their own rules and, as far as I know, are free to pick candidates any way they choose. To have a say in selecting candidates one needs to be directly involved in the work of the party, attend party functions, and stuff like that. It’s more than just checking a box somewhere. The process differs between parties and between states. So it doesn't bother you that she never won a single primary nor will she face an open convention? It doesn't bother you that no other names are even being talked about, much less considered? How did everyone suddenly change their minds in unison? No, it doesn’t bother me. I’m guessing she won state primaries but I haven’t looked it up. I personally think open primaries are a bad idea. People shouldn’t have a say in a party nomination unless they are actually involved with their party. When Harris was competing for the presidential nomination I favored her over Biden. There were several in the race I favored over Biden. I thought she would make a good president then and I think so now. |
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Post by millring on Jul 29, 2024 19:40:41 GMT -5
So it doesn't bother you that she never won a single primary nor will she face an open convention? It doesn't bother you that no other names are even being talked about, much less considered? How did everyone suddenly change their minds in unison? It only takes a few people, John, far less than one might think. And it doesn't even have to be a conspiracy. It's rigged, the other guys have it fixed. So it doesn't bother you that the primary process was bypassed and there's no open convention. For how many Democrats do you think Harris would be a first choice? Second choice? Any choice at all? How many States did she win in 2020? |
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Post by epaul on Jul 29, 2024 19:52:11 GMT -5
... Doesn't it bother anyone that you're being steam rolled into accepting a nominee who didn't win a single primary AND won't face an open convention? Where's the democratic process in that? It was a screwy, approaching dire, situation. Lot's of opinions and guesses. Biden threw his support to his vice president, Harris. 99% of the elected delegates to the Democratic convention support Harris, appear to be enthusiastic about Harris, and are indisputably greatly relieved with how a dire situation turned un-dire and is now positive. As Dub has pointed out, a political party's national convention operates by the rules its party members decide to operate by. The candidate the convention selects then enters a Democratic election, the national election for president of this country; a National Democratic Election in which every citizen of this great country has a right to enter their vote, you know, the Constitutionally Decreed Democratic Election for President that Trump has just promised his dear, sweet Christians he will put an end to once he is elected. If you are so concerned about a Democratic will being thwarted, why look at an imagined mouse when there is an actual lumbering elephant trashing the house. |
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Post by Russell Letson on Jul 29, 2024 19:52:36 GMT -5
Because everyone seems mesmerized by the new energy of all of a sudden there is absolutely no dissention in the ranks, not even a discussion -- when my recollection was that everyone here did not want Harris. Doesn't it bother anyone that you're being steam rolled into accepting a nominee who didn't win a single primary AND won't face an open convention? Where's the democratic process in that? I just reviewed this thread, and what I see is a bit of luke-warmishness toward Harris and some pro-Kelly tropism, but not unanimous opposition to Harris. My own self, even before Biden withdrew, I figured that if he did, Harris would be the natural, practical, and probably optimal candidate. And as much as I respect Biden, I'm content with to see Harris called off the bench. Apparently the movers & shakers in the Party came to that conclusion as well. I'm not exactly a party-politics wonk--it's too much like inside-baseball stuff--but it doesn't take much analytical expertise to look at the resumes of the handful of Democrats with even marginal national reps, look at Harris's resume and deportment, and try to think a bit like a political wonk (counting the Electoral College house, looking at battleground states, eyeballing gender/ethnicity issues the way the Trumpists would, considering the "optics" of an intra-party brawl, etc.). And even if the recent bump in her positives is partly a "honeymoon period" effect, she looks to me like an actually viable candidate. |
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Post by Cornflake on Jul 29, 2024 20:12:11 GMT -5
I was one of the people who didn't want Harris to be the replacement candidate. The fact that she essentially got the role by acclamation doesn't bother me. For one thing, none of the promising candidates was inclined to oppose her. For another, there was the potential for a competitive process to cause divisions we didn't need at a time when we need to be taking shots at the Republicans, not at each other. Still another factor was that, in a short time, Harris rounded up enough pledged delegate votes to get the nomination no matter what I thought.
For this Democrat, the situation was pretty dire. I want to win. A friend who's more politically savvy than I says she'll be another Biden. I can live with that, given the alternative, even if she wasn't my first choice.
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Post by epaul on Jul 29, 2024 20:14:09 GMT -5
And why work so hard at conjuring up whatever it is you are trying to get at (a contrived Republican talking point).
One, why bring up "Why aren't you bothered Harris won no primaries"? That is a silly argument and a silly concern. It was not possible for Harris to win any of the Democratic party's presidential primaries as she wasn't a candidate running for the Democratic party's nomination for president at the time any of the primaries were held. You could just as sensibly have asked Democrats, "Why are you not concerned that Harris has not built a space ship with warp drive and flown to Alpha Centauri?"
Why be concerned about the impossible and ridiculous? Are you not familiar with the events that have transpired in this last month, a month in which there were no primaries for Harris or anyone else to run in?
Two, as for an open convention, the convention is open. Anyone who wished or wishes to declare an intention to run for the Democratic Party's endorsement for president at the Convention was and still is free to do so. I don't expect any will as 99% of the delegates to this convention have decided, of their own free will and volition, to support Harris.
(did you get the part about these delegates deciding by their own free to support Harris?)
Most people who are not desperately thrashing about to come up with Republican talking points are greatly relieved the Democratic party has avoided potentially disastrous confusion and coalesced around Harris in a unified attempt to win the election and stop the Trump from knocking down any more walls.
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Post by Marshall on Jul 29, 2024 20:48:25 GMT -5
I didn’t want Biden.
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Post by kbcolorado on Jul 30, 2024 7:23:34 GMT -5
I don't recall either party ever being as organized as the Dems have been in the wake of the disastrous debate ... leadership and rank & file both. Rather impressive and a good lesson for Republicans ... that they will ignore  |
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Post by majorminor on Jul 30, 2024 7:49:16 GMT -5
So, if Biden was up 10 points over Trump before the debate would he still have been forced out? I mean think about that. One interesting take away from all this is if your guy is polling bad enough you can just replace him at the last minute and get two bites at the apple.
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Post by Cornflake on Jul 30, 2024 7:58:10 GMT -5
"One interesting take away from all this is if your guy is polling bad enough you can just replace him at the last minute and get two bites at the apple."
That may seem unfair if we view elections as sports events. If the goal is to get a good president, though, it strikes me as a good thing. A Times poll showed that 87 percent of those polled approved of Biden's withdrawal. Many didn't like the choice they were being given. Now they get a different choice.
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Post by billhammond on Jul 30, 2024 8:47:40 GMT -5
So, if Biden was up 10 points over Trump before the debate would he still have been forced out? I mean think about that. One interesting take away from all this is if your guy is polling bad enough you can just replace him at the last minute and get two bites at the apple.Nothing illegal or improper about that, if you've got someone in the wings who is viable. My take on Harris is that she is sane, smart, tough, not old, and not orange. Plus she's surrounded by an established team of sane and smart advisers who have worked together for years. Plus she is gonna grab a ton of female voters. No contest when weighed against Trump. |
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Post by majorminor on Jul 30, 2024 8:59:29 GMT -5
So, if Biden was up 10 points over Trump before the debate would he still have been forced out? I mean think about that. One interesting take away from all this is if your guy is polling bad enough you can just replace him at the last minute and get two bites at the apple.Nothing illegal or improper about that, if you've got someone in the wings who is viable. My take on Harris is that she is sane, smart, tough, not old, and not orange. Plus she's surrounded by an established team of sane and smart advisers who have worked together for years. Plus she is gonna grab a ton of female voters. No contest when weighed against Trump. I'm not really comparing Trump vs Harris so much. Just kind of contemplating this unprecedented event of a late switch of a candidate after the primary process is long done. With Biden there is some there there regarding a reason for him to bow out but like I said I bet if he was up in the polls he'd be in the race still today and his capacity would be addressed later. So for instance as a future strategy run 2 people on a ticket and if the polls say no chance to win make the switch just because you can apparently. |
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Post by Cosmic Wonder on Jul 30, 2024 9:21:35 GMT -5
Follow the money.
Harris has raised over 200 million after Biden withdrew, 61% from first time donations. That’s unheard of, till now.
Mike
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Post by majorminor on Jul 30, 2024 9:39:41 GMT -5
Follow the money. Harris has raised over 200 million after Biden withdrew, 61% from first time donations. That’s unheard of, till now. Mike Yeah that is pretty wild. A lot of pent up frustration and demand out there for "other" apparently. |
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Post by Cornflake on Jul 30, 2024 10:27:24 GMT -5
The pessimist in me notes that we haven't seen much of Harris yet. Things could switch back just as quickly if she screws up.
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Post by millring on Jul 30, 2024 10:45:03 GMT -5
The pessimist in me notes that we haven't seen much of Harris yet. You don't watch the RuPaul show then? |
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Post by Cornflake on Jul 30, 2024 10:51:48 GMT -5
No, but I know who RuPaul is. Only because he was once a guest on Finding Your Roots. He seemed like a guy who had accepted who and what he was and made his peace with it.
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