Mr Tanner

[millring]

Do you admire him or pity him? Do you ridicule the Mr Tanners you come across in life? Should a man's reach exceed his grasp, or is contentment the name of the game?

[Cornflake]

Who is Mr. Tanner, John?

[epaul]

[epaul]

Interesting. The fellow that apparently inspired Harry Chapin to write the song.

[james]

Mr Tubridy and his wife Marlane have sung a few things together.

www.martintubridy.com/music-video-covers


There's a newspaper article on the website with some more about Mr.Tubridy and the Mr.Tanner story.

www.martintubridy.com/the-story-behind


ETA - On the matter of admiration or pity or ridiculing Mr Tanner? For me, none of those things apply really. I'm sort of sympathetic but largely indifferent. I'm not sure that sometimes over-reaching in one's life needs to preclude contentment more generally. 

[Dub]

I think Chapin's song is a sad one. It really highlights life's cruelties rather than its opportunities. The point isn't Mr. Tanner himself but how the world treats people whose only goal is to share that which moves them.

The first time I heard this song I was backstage hearing Chapin do it live. Our band had just finished our set opening for Chapin. This was at St. Norbert College in De Pere, Wisconsin.

[coachdoc]

And how did it strike you then?

[epaul]

Jul 31, 2024 13:14:39 GMT -5 Dub said:

... The point isn't Mr. Tanner himself but how the world treats people whose only goal is to share that which moves them...

?

Whose goal was this sharing business? Not Mr. Tanner's. It wasn't his idea to go off to New York to make a big splash and possibly make singing his vocation. His friends pushed him into that; their idea, not his. If anything, the theme of the song is beware the flattery of friends. Follow your street, not theirs.

The song is very clear. Singing wasn't his livelihood (business), it was something very personal that made him whole. The chorus repeats that over and over. You can't miss it. If you stay within the boundaries of the song, it is clear that no audience was necessary in order for Mr. Tanner's singing to make him whole and fill his life. The business about needing to go off to New York City and make a Big Splash with his singing, well, that was the "friends" idea. Their goal, not his. Everything was fine and dandy until he allowed his "friends" to inflate his head.

Beware the ambition of "friends". Follow yours, not theirs.

The song begins with Mr. Tanner singing for himself because it makes him whole and it ends with Mr. Tanner singing for himself because it makes him whole. Whole is good!

[Dub]

Jul 31, 2024 14:23:55 GMT -5 coachdoc said:

And how did it strike you then?

Well, it was 1974 and it was a brand new song. What I was listening for, backstage, were the musical details, arrangements, licks, fills, solos, etc. Chapin’s band was quite excellent. I heard the lyrics and the review quotes but wasn’t really dwelling on that. I hadn’t been huge follower of Chapin’s music, I just heard what was on the radio. I liked his music but my musical focus was bluegrass since that’s what our band played.

We had performed at the student coffee house/folk club and had a good following among the students. We were thrilled to be hired to open for Chapin in the big auditorium.

[millring]

Jul 31, 2024 15:12:27 GMT -5 epaul said:

If anything, the theme of the song is beware the flattery of friends.

I think this is absolutely right. I think this is the theme of the song.

I also think James has a brilliant insight here:

I'm not sure that sometimes over-reaching in one's life needs to preclude contentment more generally.

In other words, MAYBE Mr Tanner's friends did him a small and very painful favor. They meant well (I suppose). I mean, I think flattery is a funny thing -- I'm guessing that flattery usually comes from folks who lack the expertise to be giving us the (as it turned out in Mr Tanner's case) false hope that our skill or talent or thoughts are competitive in the broader world of people who compete for people's attention in those areas. Toward that end (of guarding ourselves from getting hurt -- or spending our life savings on a concert hall in NY City) it's the better part of wisdom to consider the source of the flattery.

So now when Mr Tanner sings, the unrealistic dream part of the singing alone has been pared away, leaving him just the joy of music. And now he can truly say that "it's the pursuit, you see, and never the arrest." -Tom Waits

I mean....I think everyone who does something like music, painting, pottery, poetry, wants to share it and dreams of being affirmed in their offerings. James Taylor sings "Now don't I dig the big time rock & roll?, to sit in the darkness and be somebody else, a time which after all is under control....give me music". To me, what I think Taylor is saying is that Mr Tanner couldn't have been persuaded by his friend's flattery if there wasn't at least some small part of his singing while working was also dreaming of performing and having that performing accepted by an audience wider than inanimate laundry.

And who knows? Maybe Mr Tanner just didn't find his right audience. Maybe he knew singing, but he didn't know marketing. Maybe he knew singing, but lacked a fitting repertoire. But, like James points out (if I understand James' point), Mr Tanner overreached, failed, and now is content with the joy of music, un-shared.

It's a great song and think it really leads to some thoughtful reflection about what drives us. It's perfect in that way, though it's not a perfect picture of how most of us share and don't share our pursuits. Authors have stories as famous as their writings about the number of rejections they've received over a lifetime of writing. I got into every #1 show in the country for which I juried with my pottery. But I also got rejected from those shows more times than I was accepted.

So, what? We guard ourselves from overvaluing flattery. We do what we do because there's something inside us that drives us to do so. We may always have dreams bigger than our ability will take us....and if we try, well, I suspect that's mostly admirable.

[Cornflake]

"We guard ourselves from overvaluing flattery. We do what we do because there's something inside us that drives us to do so. We may always have dreams bigger than our ability will take us....and if we try, well, I suspect that's mostly admirable."

I agree with all that. We should have dreams that are bigger than our abilities will take us.

I've been in the position of trying to find something positive to say about creative work I really didn't like. No doubt some of the people who have complimented my work were doing the same.

[billhammond]

Jul 31, 2024 17:10:46 GMT -5 Cornflake said:

I've been in the position of trying to find something positive to say about creative work I really didn't like.

My fallback in such situations is "You must be very proud of this."

[millring]

Jul 31, 2024 17:10:46 GMT -5 Cornflake said:

I've been in the position of trying to find something positive to say about creative work I really didn't like.

In a nutshell, that's why I didn't accept the teaching position at Warsaw Community High School 30 years ago. I didn't think I could be an encouragement to young students because I just didn't think I had it in me to summon up praise for what I realized would only be "good" on a scale relative to other students. I didn't think I could do it.

[millring]

Jul 31, 2024 17:14:27 GMT -5 billhammond said:

Jul 31, 2024 17:10:46 GMT -5 Cornflake said:

I've been in the position of trying to find something positive to say about creative work I really didn't like.

My fallback in such situations is "You must be very proud of this."

You must be very proud of this.

[Cornflake]

“Your work has a very pleasant personality.”

[epaul]

I had my own Mr. Tanner experience.

I was the star of the stage in Middle River. I rocked. I ruled. And my friends told me I was too good to stay in Middle River. I needed to take my act to Grand Forks. So I did. And it worked. I starred in Grand Forks! I was happy! And if only I had had the wisdom to stop there and enjoy the right-sized pond, the Grand Forks stage.

But, no, I was told I could go further, bigger. And I believed the seductive praise. I could go further!

So, I went to Fargo!

And it was a disaster. I was panned by the critics. . A masochistic part of me has kept a particularly nasty review published in the Fargo Forum. Every so often, I pull it out to keep me centered. I feel the need now:

Miss Carmen Del Rio sucked! Of all the Queens on the stage, only Miss Carmen apparently didn't see the need to shave. And her eye shadow was abhorrent! Fuchsia green with those orange eyelashes! Painful! And if what she was doing was "dancing" then I'm a hippopotamus, which was what the lumbering Miss Carmen Del Rio reminded me of! I don't know where this Miss Carmen Del Rio came from, but she needs to go back!

[epaul]

Now I dance home and alone...

but, occasionally... I leave a curtain open.

[John B]

This is where knowing folk music in the 70's would be helpful, because I thought you were talking about this guy.

[millring]

Jul 31, 2024 18:06:20 GMT -5 epaul said:

... I leave a curtain open.

How do you keep water off the bathroom floor?

[billhammond]

Jul 31, 2024 17:52:08 GMT -5 epaul said:

I was panned by the critics. Viscously.

They dumped oil on you???