|
Post by RickW on Apr 11, 2009 13:35:25 GMT -5
Sigh. Just spent the past hour and half trying to do some recording. New piece I completed, and one I have been messing with for years.
Recording drives me crazy. But I think I have my problem figured out - despite my personal belief that a piece is in good enough shape to record - it's not. Then I get my shorts in a knot because it doesn't go smoothly, and I'm a perfectionist, (and I'm playing solo instrumental, so every error is rather glaring,) and the session deteriorates until I quit in frustration.
Think I need to pick a date that I'm going to record, and spend some time working up what I'm going to record, until I'm satisfied I can play it well, every time. Play it well, with the touch and feel I want.
Anyhow, just venting. Anyone wants to chime in, or do some parallel venting, go right ahead....
|
|
|
Post by Village Idiot on Apr 11, 2009 13:45:22 GMT -5
I know what you mean. I think I'm ready to record something and it sounds like absolute crap when I try.
We've all got to get over the fact that it might sound like crap, but most likely sounds exactly the same as it does when we are relaxed and not recording. We're all beating ourselves over nothing.
|
|
|
Post by theevan on Apr 11, 2009 14:32:28 GMT -5
Recording is God's way of informing me that I suck.
|
|
|
Post by billhammond on Apr 11, 2009 14:40:23 GMT -5
Recording is God's way of informing me that I suck. THAT IS SO UNTRUE, but so damn funny!
|
|
Dub
Administrator
I'm gettin' so the past is the only thing I can remember.
Posts: 20,003
|
Post by Dub on Apr 11, 2009 14:47:22 GMT -5
Well, yeah. It does help to be able to play a piece clear through flawlessly, say, eighty percent of the time before trying to record it. But you can get some help from technology too. What DAW software are you using? If you record to a click-track you can count on getting the tempo the same each time you record. If you are acting as your own engineer, you might just want to keep playing the piece over and over leaving a few seconds of silence between "takes." That will reduce the amount of fussing you have to do for each take. If you are unable to get a single take that meets your expectations (the normal case for all of us) you'll be able to clip notes or passages from various takes to assemble a final result. Of course this takes some practice too but it's a good skill to develop. If every take has a flaw in the same place, maybe you weren't ready to record the piece. There is lots of information on the Net on recording technique as well as discussion of software and hardware tools and how best to use them. Knobtwister and others here may have good suggestions too. - Dub
|
|
|
Post by RickW on Apr 11, 2009 15:00:53 GMT -5
Evan, you are so right on.
I know, Dub - have done a bit of that before. I'm using Cubase. Definitely, with some pieces, I have passages that are consistently not where I want them to be. I have a thing that says if I've written the damn thing, and I'm recording it, I should be able to play it from front to back, well. However, I tend to write things at the edge of my ability, which always makes it a challenge to play flawlessly.
Might be time to have another go at that.
|
|
Dub
Administrator
I'm gettin' so the past is the only thing I can remember.
Posts: 20,003
|
Post by Dub on Apr 11, 2009 15:36:29 GMT -5
"Say buddy! Can you tell me how to get Carnegie Hall?" We tend to practice more if we're going to a commercial studio and paying an hourly charge. Then, time is money so we work hard in advance to help minimize costs. The same trick works at home to minimize frustration. ;D There is an article at AG called 51 Tips for Making Better Recordings that someone linked recently. Maybe I learned of it from the Flatpick-L list. It has a lot of good advice for recording at home. But maybe you already know all that stuff. - Dub
|
|
|
Post by Doug on Apr 11, 2009 16:57:36 GMT -5
Lots of good info there. Some doesn't apply to what I do, some I already knew, some I knew but don't pay enough attention to, some I had no idea on.
|
|
|
Post by RickW on Apr 11, 2009 18:46:33 GMT -5
It's a good article - lot of the technical stuff about filters, etc., I didn't know. I don't have much of a set up - I have a single AudioTechnica mic, and a EMU USB 404 interface box, into a laptop with Cubase. I need to experiment a bit more with the miced sound. The pickup has that slightly 'tubby' sound, but I always record it to a track anyway - like he said, you can mix it in and get something out of it, if nothing else a bit more breadth of tone.
But I still need to get to the point where I can play the piece, the way I want to play it. If I can't do that, the rest doesn't much matter.
|
|
|
Post by Marshall on Apr 11, 2009 23:51:53 GMT -5
I've got one word for you: multi-track over dubbing !
It can help you splice in and out little bobbles in an otherwise wonderful performance. . . . , but I'm sure you know that.
Had my own little recording experience today. My last recording was on a computer running Windows 98. recently I upgraded to Protools and a new interface (in a computer running XP Biz). Today for the first tome I tried to get it all to work together. It's a different program than I used before. So, I'm starting from scratch. (reinventing the wheel so to speak).
Any way it was quite frustrating. I finally got some minuscule margin of success and was able to record a "testing, one, two , three" track. It's going to take a while to get up to a level where I'm ready to sit down with an instrument and do some real takes.
But that's the way it goes.
|
|
|
Post by RickW on Apr 12, 2009 9:14:15 GMT -5
I had a real go at that, Marshall, dubbing over top. Problem I have is finding a good spot to 'come in'. It may just be that I don't have the editing touch, but unless there's an actual pause in the music, it's tough to come in without chopping either the attack or decay of a note. Might train up one of the kids to the start/stop in Cubase, which would help a bit. Either that, or I start writing pieces with way more pauses, pre built stops to compensate for my inadequacies....
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2009 18:14:12 GMT -5
I've been using Logic on my Mac and am pretty pleased with it. Take a bit to learn your way around the software, but i guess that is the case with anything.
My biggest fault when recording, at least at home, is being to critical of myself. I'll record some stuff, but never be happy with it and never actually finish a project. I think i am to much of a perfectionist with myself.
I have had much better luck going into the studio with good friends who i trust engineering and producing. I am critical of my own work, but i can ask their opinions as well to see how stuff sounds.
Anton
|
|
|
Post by Tim Alexander (fmrly. Camalex) on Apr 12, 2009 18:30:56 GMT -5
I've been using Logic on my Mac and am pretty pleased with it. Take a bit to learn your way around the software, but i guess that is the case with anything. My biggest fault when recording, at least at home, is being to critical of myself. I'll record some stuff, but never be happy with it and never actually finish a project. I think i am to much of a perfectionist with myself. I have had much better luck going into the studio with good friends who i trust engineering and producing. I am critical of my own work, but i can ask their opinions as well to see how stuff sounds. Anton DITTO -- and the ears you're working with are some of the best.
|
|
|
Post by Marshall on Apr 12, 2009 19:13:09 GMT -5
I had a real go at that, Marshall, dubbing over top. Problem I have is finding a good spot to 'come in'. It may just be that I don't have the editing touch, but unless there's an actual pause in the music, it's tough to come in without chopping either the attack or decay of a note. Might train up one of the kids to the start/stop in Cubase, which would help a bit. Either that, or I start writing pieces with way more pauses, pre built stops to compensate for my inadequacies.... What I've done is record a second separate track starting at some point well in front of the bobble and continue well beyond the bobble. Then it's a matter of looking at wave files and zeroing out the bad part on the first track and zeroing out the "before" and "after" areas on track 2. It's pretty easy to pick a good place when you're looking at wave files. The important thing is to record the second take right after the first withoug changing any settings or positions of the mics or whatever. You want the sound to be as close to exactly like the first take as possible.
|
|
|
Post by Fingerplucked on Apr 12, 2009 19:37:28 GMT -5
Or just keep recording takes. And make sure you screw up different parts of the song. (If you keep screwing up the same part, there's not much you can do.) Then go back and take sections of later takes and paste into a new track alongside your almost perfect target track. (Assuming you're using a click track.)
Are you still using Cubase LE, or have you upgraded? Version 5 just came out. I have Studio 4. With Studio 4, you can "crossfade" tracks so that the volume on one track fades out as the volume on the other track fades in. I'm not sure if LE does that or not.
Zoom in on your two tracks as tightly as you can. Pick a spot in between notes, or where notes are decaying as your edit point. Visually compare the two tracks in your exploded view and make sure that both tracks are doing the same thing and are at similar volumes. Highlight around your edit point and crossfade the tracks.
If you can't crossfade in LE, you can still do it manually -- fade in on your replacement segment and fade out on the original.
I just got done spending a couple hours trying to record a video, singing, playing, and trying not to look stupid, all at the same time. I'm not sure if I got there or not. I'm going to wait until another day to go back and review, but I think I only had one of the three going right at any given point.
|
|
|
Post by RickW on Apr 13, 2009 0:39:37 GMT -5
I'll have to play with that, Jim and Marshall. Compromise sucks... ...in a way, it's a wake up call - what's the point of writing stuff, if I can't play it the way I want? But, I'm really happy with the piece, and the other ones I have, and don't want to hack them to make them simpler. Well, if it was easy, everyone would be doing it..... oh wait, they already are....
|
|
|
Post by Tim Alexander (fmrly. Camalex) on Apr 13, 2009 7:23:31 GMT -5
Rick -- finding a good local studio has been very helpful to me. yes, there is added expense but far less frustration. You rhetorical question about what's the point is realy a sign of frustration.
First of all, I actually think you do play your music the way you've written it and the way you want --BUT -- you may not always play it that way WHEN you want to (in the studio). Being under the gun of a microphone in a hypersensitized environment isn't exactly the best way to get comfortabe and play your music at your most spontaneous/musical peak. Anton's suggestions above is a good one -- get others involved in listening to you as you record -- first of all, you'll have a little audience to play to (always good to keep the energy level up) and you have others who will talk you out of ditching a really nice take.
What we hear as we perform is far different than what we hear when we listen to the play back (so listen to the playbcak before you ditch on a take) -- additionally what we hear in playback is very different than what others hear in playback (ask others for their opinion). The extra set of ears means more than having a buddy tell you you are great -- it means you have someone who isn't YOU doing the playing. If you are like me you hear ALL/EVERY ONE of your mistakes regardless of how large/small -- conversely, others don't hear the mistakes nearly as much and some "mistakes" are actually very cool variations that with editing can create a nice unexpected variation. But often, we don't ourselves think of our own mistakes as being cool.
Truth is: unless you're a commercial recording star -- your recordings are attempts to communicate an impossible ideal -- pefectly sung, perfectly played renditions of music we play for audiences. We need to dial back that expectation -- rarely are our recordings ever going to be the best rendtions and but they should be in the upper 80-90% -- so how to accomplish that?
Minimize your own effort -- get someone else to move the mic's, set the levels, position the instruments, etc. and then trust in your own ear as you play -- don't be concerned with the technical recording stuff when you go to record -- concern yourself only with the music, the song, the physical necessities of playing it well and let others worrry about getting the sound into a box. It's all about the music -- it's not about the technical stuff. A well played tune on a poorly recorded track is still far more entertaining than a poorly played tune on a well recorded track. And digital editing and filters can boost a poorly recordinfg/well played track into something you'd never expect.
Oh by the way -- it is not easy. But its starts with desire and it sounds like you have enough of that. Good luck.
BTW -- the flatpick is for throwing to your fans.
|
|
Dub
Administrator
I'm gettin' so the past is the only thing I can remember.
Posts: 20,003
|
Post by Dub on Apr 13, 2009 8:19:29 GMT -5
BTW -- the flatpick is for throwing to your fans. I don't think so. Not at $35 a pop. - Dub
|
|
|
Post by RickW on Apr 13, 2009 9:10:41 GMT -5
Thanks, Camelex. Might see if I can persuade the girls to help me out. Dub, you got mighty expensive taste in picks. I thought 3.50 for my bumblebees was outrageous....
|
|
Dub
Administrator
I'm gettin' so the past is the only thing I can remember.
Posts: 20,003
|
Post by Dub on Apr 13, 2009 10:25:09 GMT -5
Dub, you got mighty expensive taste in picks. I thought 3.50 for my bumblebees was outrageous.... I've only purchased one of those so far but I really like it and will probably be buying more of them. Back in the 1960s and '70s I used to use real Tortoise shell picks. I'd spend a Saturday two or three times a year visiting all the Chicago area music stores going through all their Tortoise shell picks selecting those few that met my requirements. One day we were part of a big country show show at Chicago's Aragon Ballroom. When we came off stage someone had lifted my collection of Tortoise shell picks. At the time we were starting to become aware that Hawksbill Turtles were endangered so that combined with the difficulty of finding picks I liked caused me to abandon their use. But I've always wished for (and searched for) picks that had at least some of the characteristics of Tortoise shell. I have quite a few Wegens ($5 ea.) and a number of Red Bear picks ($20 ea.) all of which are engineered materials and are very nice picks to use. The Blue Chip picks have only been available for a relatively short time but they're getting lots of attention in flatpicking circles. I figured I needed to try one at least just to know what everyone's going on about. So far I love the one I've purchased. It's become the pick I use most often. Even the Blue Chip picks at $35 are cheaper than the natural Tortoise shell picks still favored by the flatpicking legends. Those run $50 to $80 ea. and you have to have a black market source. A violin bow will typically cost as much or more than the violin it's used on. Violin bows can range from tens of thousands of dollars to hundreds of thousands. They have nearly as much to do with the sound a player gets as does the instruments itself. To a lesser degree, the same is true of picks; both flatpicks and thumbpicks. Different shapes, thicknesses and materials make a huge difference in the tone and facility one has when using them. Why would we pay thousands of dollars for our instruments only to limit their tone by using a twenty-five cent pick? - Dub
|
|