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Post by Chesapeake on Mar 9, 2014 22:46:09 GMT -5
Patrick - I already acknowledged that this is pure speculation on my part. The "responsible" media are being very careful not to connect any of these dots - and they should be, because sensitivities are involved, and I apparently have scraped some of yours. Sorry, didn't mean to. Just observing that the odds against (a) an airplane just happening to fall out of the sky with no warning, AND (b) two individuals with stolen passports being on that self-same airplane, seem astronomical. Now, if it turned out that the use of stolen passports is a lot more routine than most of us would think, because foreign airlines turn out not to be as careful about checking things like that as we are, then the odds would come down somewhat. In any case, in the absence of hard information (as yet), I'm just tossing around plausible scenarios based on facts that are known so far. As for targeting Muslims, I was just looking around for somebody who might have it in for the Chinese, since that was the nationality of most of the passengers, and the Uighurs would fill that bill quite nicely.
BtW, I happen to greatly sympathize with the Uighurs. They are a conquered people who have been treated very harshly by the Chinese, and their so-called "autonomous region" is in truth a relic of Chinese imperialism.
Uh-oh, there I go offending the Chinese.
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Post by jdd2 on Mar 10, 2014 4:13:12 GMT -5
You can report your visa card stolen, and almost immediately it's number will never be usable again (and it will send up flags if it is used).
Yet passports that disappeared some time ago can still be used?
Given the supposed long arm of the NSA, you'd think that sleuthing something like this would be a no-brainer check. That they'd be able to instantly highlight anywhere in the world that a lost/stolen passport was being used.
Then again, maybe with all those phone records they're interested in, they're taken their eye off the ball?
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Post by Marshall on Mar 10, 2014 6:16:00 GMT -5
We refuse to track guns. Why should passports be different?
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Post by theevan on Mar 10, 2014 6:38:36 GMT -5
If I've understood what I've read thus far, there is such a database with flags. The problem is not using it at security checkpoints into airport secure areas. Or when getting boarding passes.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2014 6:41:08 GMT -5
Why would we track Austrian and Italian passports used to book tickets on a Malaysian airline? I'm confused here.
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Post by jdd2 on Mar 10, 2014 6:55:01 GMT -5
Well, my impression is that the NSA is able to track everything.
This little tidbit of data about the lost/stolen passports should be jumping out at them (and the airlines) like a screaming yellow zonker.
Again, the NSA may be too absorbed in analyzing so many mega-gazillion phone records to be worried about a couple of people travelling on stolen passports, but it would have been nice if the system beeped a few times when those passports were used to buy the tickets, let alone when they were used to board planes. Or maybe the NSA only has US interests to look out for?
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Post by theevan on Mar 10, 2014 7:51:25 GMT -5
Why would we track Austrian and Italian passports used to book tickets on a Malaysian airline? I'm confused here. Because they were both reported & flagged as being lost or stolen in thailand. That info is available and integrated into us tsa protocol. The data is available everywhere but not integrated into airport security many other places
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Post by dradtke on Mar 10, 2014 8:19:21 GMT -5
Obviously beamed up by aliens.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2014 9:05:03 GMT -5
Evan, I reckon my point was this was a non-US flagged carrier and these were non-US national passports. To think we, the US, should have been "on the lookout" doesn't make sense. What were we supposed to do? Call Malaysia and tell them they had two passengers using European passports to get on a plane to China?
Again, I don't get our role here.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2014 10:04:34 GMT -5
As long as we're wildly speculating, I say it probably was: -- Basque Separatists, or -- Christian Dominionists, or -- The Red Brigades, or -- Franklin Graham's outfit, or -- Some as-yet unknown (and unanticipated) problem with the 777's airframe, powerplant or computer software.
Terror groups generally lay claim to such acts. Why do it if you're not going to tell the world that you did it?
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Post by godotwaits on Mar 10, 2014 10:50:08 GMT -5
I do like your last choice. But it sure as hell was unanticipated alright. The 777 has 14 years of good behavior under it's wings. Except, of course, the idiot who came in too low in SF. But, then again, 14 yr olds have been known to do some stupid things. It is frustrating. I guess we'll all need to be patient and let the investigation run its course. If nothing is ever discovered, at least the world will have learned something about it. Interpol is gonna be one busy server.
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Post by billhammond on Mar 10, 2014 10:56:14 GMT -5
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Post by godotwaits on Mar 10, 2014 11:10:27 GMT -5
Well. I'm waiting for the videotape. Just like the Boston Bombing incident. These two invalid passports both bought their tickets simultaneously, almost like, together. Which has a pretty ominous indication in and of itself. I'm presuming that there might be some videotape of these transactions that they can play for the world and simply ask... Does anyone know these knackers?
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Post by Lonnie on Mar 10, 2014 11:15:41 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2014 11:21:20 GMT -5
I do like your last choice. But it sure as hell was unanticipated alright. The 777 has 14 years of good behavior under it's wings. Except, of course, the idiot who came in too low in SF. But, then again, 14 yr olds have been known to do some stupid things. It is frustrating. I guess we'll all need to be patient and let the investigation run its course. If nothing is ever discovered, at least the world will have learned something about it. Interpol is gonna be one busy server. Boeing's 737 operated for years before the rudder reversal issues were discovered. Similarly, DC-9s (and later MD-80s) operated for years before they realized the plane had a design flaw that allowed wing icing in ambient temperatures as high as 50 degrees F. Granted, a lot of experience and design time went into the 777. But if humans designed and built it, there is room for error somewhere. There could've been some design issue. There could've been some issue on the assembly line. If it weren't foul play, it was, no doubt, some combination of factors. The curious thing is the altitude. At 35,000 feet, you generally have a bit of time to diagnose and deal with a problem, or at least radio that you're having some sort of problem.
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Post by Doug on Mar 10, 2014 11:28:03 GMT -5
Well. I'm waiting for the videotape. Just like the Boston Bombing incident. These two invalid passports both bought their tickets simultaneously, almost like, together. Which has a pretty ominous indication in and of itself. I'm presuming that there might be some videotape of these transactions that they can play for the world and simply ask... Does anyone know these knackers? video yes, videotape no. You are still in the 18th century with Russell.
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Post by godotwaits on Mar 10, 2014 11:42:10 GMT -5
Well. There you go. Sounds like we're making some progress here.
btw, i gotta a table from the 1700s just in case you're interested... you know tiger maple.
and double btw. Russell don't make bad company.. as long as you keep your Bing Translator app closeby.
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Post by Chesapeake on Mar 10, 2014 11:47:48 GMT -5
.... If it weren't foul play, it was, no doubt, some combination of factors. The curious thing is the altitude. At 35,000 feet, you generally have a bit of time to diagnose and deal with a problem, or at least radio that you're having some sort of problem. Bingo, big (and a lot of smaller) disasters almost always are the results of chains of events. AF447 was a classic case. They enter a storm; the air-speed indicators freeze up; autopilot is automatically disabled; the pilot instinctively tries to gain altitude; he over-corrects and hits 38,000 feet; at which the plane loses airspeed and stalls; and even at that altitude there's not enough room to recover, they plough straight into the ocean. Maybe something like that will turn out to be the case here, though the initiating factor isn't likely to be weather - seems this one crashed on a bright, sunny day.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2014 13:24:59 GMT -5
Ayuh. Right now, 40 in-production 787s have wing cracks. They haven't made it out of the factory yet.
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Post by billhammond on Mar 10, 2014 13:30:36 GMT -5
Chinese media now reporting that Vietnam has picked up signals from the plane.
OOPS, disregard. That was a first-day story that never panned out. Mr. Hammond regrets the confusion.
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