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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2014 19:43:20 GMT -5
There are people desperately concerned for the welfare of their children. They think that their children's future is safer in the United States. They hope that their children and sometimes themselves will not be deported and more often than not they are wrong as deportations are at a record high and rising.
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Post by godotwaits on Jul 8, 2014 19:43:24 GMT -5
See "Sin Nombre" 2009. There's nothing new under the sun, only the volume.
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Post by millring on Jul 8, 2014 19:50:12 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2014 19:56:39 GMT -5
The "correction" at the bottom of that Washington Post piece is significant. I don't think that talking about "Lies" so prominently in the headline is helpful.
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Post by Doug on Jul 8, 2014 20:13:52 GMT -5
Seems to be a failure of the primary purpose of government. To protect the country from invasion. Seem we have military all over the world except where they are needed.
There is no reason to deport if you don't let them invade in the first place.
Not the first time in history that the unarmed peasants and children were sent first a cannon fodder.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2014 20:33:27 GMT -5
Take a moment to reflect on the circumstances that compel a parent to send their child to another country. It is desperate. Have a little empathy. Maybe you belong with those baying, raging people who have been on the news, meeting these soon to be deported victims of awful circumstance.
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Post by Village Idiot on Jul 8, 2014 20:40:11 GMT -5
I'm with James, here.
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Post by millring on Jul 8, 2014 20:51:39 GMT -5
But they're not coming from one place. They're coming from multiple countries. And they are children. Again I ask, who of us would have known how to make such a trip at 10 years old? How did so many families over so many countries SUDDENLY, and without concert, send their children to almost simultaneously show up at our border? It just doesn't add up.
And we're the cruel ones for asking. Yeah, I get it. Not the counties that are sending them. Us. We're the cruel ones, though, to date, we are taking them in and caring for them and probably will do so in perpetuity. How does an angel ever get her wings when she is simultaneously caring for and blamed for not caring? It's ever thus. We have the hungriest children in the industrial world because we count the very children we are feeding as among the hungry. We have the poorest poor because we count the very ones we are helping. So we are blamed for not helping the very ones we help. Sorry, but that bar is too damned high.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2014 21:19:47 GMT -5
It is not "countries" that are sending children. It is the parents of children in Central America. Those parents are at the end of their tethers and are acting as any parent might, to protect their children. The situation is grim. That some peoples responses to the situation are lacking in compassion, regardless of their opinions about immigration policy is doubly grim.
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Post by Cornflake on Jul 8, 2014 21:34:59 GMT -5
I sympathize with the parents and children on a human level. My country, however, is not the world's lifeboat. Our laws should be enforced.
As for terminology, I'm getting Facebook posts from my right-wing kin lambasting Obama for going to Texas for fundraisers instead of going there because of the border crisis. I infer that the "crisis" terminology depends on the point someone wishes to make.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2014 21:44:03 GMT -5
The thing that is most important to me in that remark is that you said that, on a human level, you are sympathetic. It is vital that people express sympathy and humanity when they honestly can. Our common humanity should always be respected and elevated.
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Post by Cornflake on Jul 8, 2014 21:51:43 GMT -5
I agree, and the comment wasn't perfunctory. But there are lots of people getting screwed in the world and we can't fix all of it.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2014 21:57:37 GMT -5
Don't worry. I'm working on it.
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Post by godotwaits on Jul 9, 2014 4:33:17 GMT -5
If it is indeed to be characterized as a 'crisis,' it is a second hand crisis for us. The crisis is in Honduras, Guatamala and El Salvador. There is an interesting article in the WashPost today regarding this. Gangs, 'maras,' are ruling the roost in these countries and their primary targets are the youth of these countries. Rape, murder and mayhem. Recruitment starts in Kindergarten for cripes sake. Even the Mexican drug cartels have to negotiate terms with these gangs. These kids are faced with a choice. Certain rape/murder/mayhem or migration with a glimmer of hope. So the only solution to this problem is to diplomatically allow for the possibility of keeping the kids 'home on the farm.' Sending them back is nothing short of child abuse and a very likely death sentence. We can spend a lot of money sending them back and extinguishing their 'glimmer of hope,' or we can learn how to deal with the root cause.
See "Sin Nombre." There is nothing new under the sun. It's a situation that has only gotten worse in the fertile grounds of corrupt governments that are within our sphere of influence. OK. It's just a movie from 2009. But it accurately depicts the desperation of the problem in a movie fictive sense. Maybe someone will be kind enough to drag that Wash Post article over here. Immigration is a political hot button and I believe that we are over looking the forest for the trees.
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Post by millring on Jul 9, 2014 4:34:09 GMT -5
It is not "countries" that are sending children. It is the parents of children in Central America. Again, how did something involving so many from so many different countries suddenly start acting in concert?
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Post by epaul on Jul 9, 2014 7:37:21 GMT -5
Where are all these kids coming from? Chicago?
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Post by millring on Jul 9, 2014 7:39:58 GMT -5
Where are all these kids coming from? Chicago? Oh, god no. There is no evidence that they are armed.
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Post by Russell Letson on Jul 9, 2014 10:18:48 GMT -5
I follow the ordinary news, and it seems to me that this didn't become a "crisis" until our various political factions started reacting to it. I recall a handful of stories a few weeks ago highlighting the spike in border crossings by unaccompanied kids. Then questions started to be asked about causes (that's when Central-American gang culture was first mentioned) and solutions (border patrol and internment facilities were overwhelmed) and politically-interested parties started reshaping old arguments around these new conditions. The real "crisis" took off as a news story when those anti-immigrant crowds turned back the buses in Murrieta. Duelling protesters make for easy video, as do duelling talking heads. The real crisis has been going on for years, and it's not just a matter of "border security" or immigration policy--it's tied up with poverty, corruption, and incompetence in other nations and our lack of attention to it.
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Dub
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Post by Dub on Jul 9, 2014 10:29:16 GMT -5
I thought this piece on Nora Sandigo was pretty interesting. She's attempting to care for US born (i.e. citizens) children of deported illegals.
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Post by patrick on Jul 9, 2014 11:02:14 GMT -5
OK, I have time now for a fuller answer than my previous post.
This is now a "crisis" because far more of them are coming across the border now than had been previously, in other words, the numbers are beginning to add up.
A law was passed in 2008 with almost unanimous support in both the House and Senate and signed by GW Bush which was designed to control sex trafficking, especially of women and children. It requires that unaccompanied children be turned over to HHS for care, that an effort be made to locate family members here for them to join, or, if sent back to their home countries, a background check be run on those claiming the kids. It all worked fine until recently when, as others have pointed out, conditions in those countries deteriorated rapidly and large numbers started heading north.
As for how they get here, the parents pay money to coyotes to get them across the border.
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