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Post by lar on Nov 10, 2015 21:05:08 GMT -5
I haven't watched any of the debates yet so I thought I'd watch the ones tonight. The first one is over and Fox is now telling me what I saw and heard. I could have saved a lot of time and just tuned in for the post-game show.
The Republicans finally have what they want; friendly debate moderators. I wonder if it made any difference. If the candidates aren't going to address the questions, what difference does it make who asks the questions or what they are?
I'd like the see the candidates mic shut off within 5 seconds of the time the bell rings. I'd also like to see them go on to another candidate when one decides not to answer the question that is asked.
Why to they call these debates anyway? It's mostly just mini-stump speeches by the various candidates. It's a difficult for me to take all of this seriously. Especially given the fact that all of the candidates referred freely to their plans to do one thing or another without ever once being specific. Huckabee did say that he'd get rid of the IRS. But that was about it for details. I did hear some tax rates talked about and that's a good thing. But two candidates talked about their flat tax plans, which aren't really, and after touting the fact that they are going to get rid of loopholes and deductions they mentioned several deductions. Far as I can tell it's business as usual despite what the candidates are saying.
Chris wants to defeat Hillary and Bobby wants everyone to think that he's the only "real" Republican. I gave Bobby points for having lots of figures and percentages at his fingertips. Then I took away points because I have no idea where he got those numbers and whether they are credible or not. A real-time fact checker would be a help.
The second debate is about to start. If we get real luck, The Donald will take a swing at Carly and the whole thing will evolve into a WWF style free-for-all. My money's on Carly. I think she can take him.
One of the moderators has an English accent. What's up with that?
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Post by james on Nov 10, 2015 21:55:22 GMT -5
I wonder who will ask Cruz, Jindal and Huckabee whether they are happy to have shared the platform at a religious conference this last weekend with a man (Kevin Swanson) who thinks that gay people should be executed.
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Post by aquaduct on Nov 10, 2015 22:06:00 GMT -5
I wonder who will ask Cruz, Jindal and Huckabee whether they are happy to have shared the platform at a religious conference this last weekend with a man (Kevin Swanson) who thinks that gay people should be executed. Don't see how that would matter. |
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Post by james on Nov 10, 2015 22:20:38 GMT -5
I think it matters that Republican candidates share a stage with a man who approves of killing gay people and do not argue with that opinion.
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Post by aquaduct on Nov 10, 2015 22:30:07 GMT -5
We all share space with people we disagree with all the time. The fact that none of us takes the opportunity to argue with them doesn't mean anything at all other than it's a civil society.
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Post by james on Nov 10, 2015 22:38:59 GMT -5
Not "none of us". Some of us challenge that kind of thing. Always.
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Post by aquaduct on Nov 10, 2015 22:41:53 GMT -5
Not "none of us". Some of us challenge that kind of thing. Always. In every aspect of your disagreement? |
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Post by james on Nov 10, 2015 22:49:59 GMT -5
I will never stand in the presence of a man who says that gay people should repent or be executed and not make my disagreement with him known. Never. Am I to take it that you would let such sentiments be expressed without objecting?
I must be misunderstanding.
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Post by aquaduct on Nov 10, 2015 23:08:17 GMT -5
If I argued with everyone I disagreed with I'd never get anything else done. No, I don't see any reason to object to every opinion that is expressed including this one.
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Post by jdd2 on Nov 10, 2015 23:22:42 GMT -5
Oops. I didn't know that it was another debate night...!
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Post by Fingerplucked on Nov 11, 2015 13:53:57 GMT -5
I wonder who will ask Cruz, Jindal and Huckabee whether they are happy to have shared the platform at a religious conference this last weekend with a man (Kevin Swanson) who thinks that gay people should be executed. I was trying to link a video of that. It sucks having no sound on my computer. I'm finding more 4 and 5 year old clips of Swanson than the recent event with the GOPers. I heard Swanson on a podcast and couldn't believe what I was hearing. Even among those who think they're protecting marriage, I don't see how they could sit through that crap. And if I was a bona fide "execute all the gays" bigot running for public office, I still would have refused to get up on that stage, knowing that I'd come off looking more like Adolf Hitler than the leader of the free world. I don't need more reasons to dislike Cruz, Jindal and Huckabee. But if I was on the fence or solidly in their camp, that would have given me reason to rethink and pick a new candidate. |
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Post by Fingerplucked on Nov 11, 2015 14:17:53 GMT -5
I will never stand in the presence of a man who says that gay people should repent or be executed and not make my disagreement with him known. Never. Am I to take it that you would let such sentiments be expressed without objecting? I must be misunderstanding. Are you saying that Swanson (whoever he is) made the statement --in the presence of Jindal, Cruz, and Huckabee-- that he wants to execute gay people? That's a good question. From the podcast, I think they were. But then there's editing and stuff, so maybe not. Good question. |
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Post by Fingerplucked on Nov 11, 2015 14:40:23 GMT -5
John, if that happened the way I think it did with the wacko speaking and then introducing Cruz, then Huckabee, then Jindal, pulling them up from the audience . . . I have no doubt that if it had been you, you would have told him to fuck off and walked out.
You really have to hear this guy for yourself. It was the worst kind of poison he was spewing.
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Post by james on Nov 11, 2015 20:04:24 GMT -5
Millring. Kevin Swanson is a demented right wing religious fundamentalist loony who has repeatedly, including at this conference said that gay people should die because of what the bible says. Jindal, Cruz and Huckabee, aware of this, could have thought that maybe they shouldn't have been supportive of his conference. They didn't. You don't find that shabby?
The invitation to appear alongside Swanson was one that even Rick (frothy) Santorum declined.
Edit - It wasn't Frothy, it was Carson according to something I just read. |
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Post by Fingerplucked on Nov 12, 2015 9:52:01 GMT -5
I missed this the first time around, but Ted Cruz wanted to make sure he wasn't implicated or associated with the wrong kind of message. After being introduced, he made sure he wasn't going to be questioned about anything controversial. He made sure there would be no questions about fantasy football.
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Post by Fingerplucked on Nov 12, 2015 13:05:28 GMT -5
THAT's what you got out of that video?
Maybe you're basing your answers on something other than the video? I tried finding something from the right on the conference, but all I could find were left wing or pro LGBT reports. I thought there might have been some kind of explanation or defense from the GOP candidates, but if there is, I couldn't find it.
Going from the video, it appears that the candidates knew what Swanson was talking about. And although there was no ridiculous rule prohibiting disagreement or guaranteeing absolute agreement (why would there be?), it was clear that they were being asked open ended questions that allowed plenty of room for other topics to be raised.
Swanson has been talking about rounding up and executing gays for at least the last five years. The day before the conference, CNN asked Cruz about his involvement in the conference that Swanson was to host. Cruz pleaded ignorance. Whether that was true or not, you'd think he would be at least a little bit curious if he truly didn't know about Swanson's ravings. But we're supposed to believe that he still didn't know about Swanson when he went to the conference the following day and that he sat in a sound proofed chamber while Swanson spoke? You'd have to really want to deceive yourself to buy that one.
Why don't we ever hear about Republicans accidentally booking themselves into a pro Planned Parenthood event or a Black Lives Matter event? We hear about the anti-gay events, the KKK events, and the scam medical supplement events, which are purely "accidental." But they never seem to show up at some event that they actually would not want to be associated with.
Yesterday I said
I should have left some room for doubt. I was giving you too much credit. Or, depending on your point of view, not giving you enough credit. After all, Leviticus.
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Post by millring on Nov 12, 2015 14:17:20 GMT -5
Yesterday I said I should have left some room for doubt. I was giving you too much credit. Or, depending on your point of view, not giving you enough credit. After all, Leviticus. I didn't notice this. If I had, I would never have replied. My reconsideration of not engaging with you obviously needs re-reconsideration. |
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Post by Fingerplucked on Nov 12, 2015 14:21:23 GMT -5
John, good catch on the change of clothes. But now that you've brought it up, I'm counting three different outfits, or at least three different ties. I think this was a two day event, so he must have changed clothes midday on at least one of the days.
I'd be willing to give Cruz and the others the benefit of the doubt if they'd disavow themselves of Swanson's preachings. So far I haven't seen anything other than a questionable plea of ignorance before the event. I'm not willing to go along with their stories (if they had one) because I want to believe in them, I'd go along with the stories because I find it so mind boggling that anyone could agree with this kook. So just tell me he's a fucking nut and I'll believe you.
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Post by Fingerplucked on Nov 12, 2015 14:27:40 GMT -5
Oh. Okay. Don't engage. It wasn't what I was looking for anyhow.
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Post by james on Nov 12, 2015 15:19:52 GMT -5
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