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Post by Village Idiot on Aug 21, 2017 23:53:56 GMT -5
Epaul"s Circle of Hell?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2017 7:54:22 GMT -5
On the other hand, all the South had to do was stay viable and perhaps, as they hoped, Britain and France would join the fray and force an armistice in an unpopular war with an unpopular president. Southern victory and the Confederacy survives. After all, conquering the entire country was not their goal.
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Post by xyrn on Aug 22, 2017 12:17:23 GMT -5
I before E except AFTER C. How do you play an I Chord? What key is it in?
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Post by millring on Aug 22, 2017 12:22:02 GMT -5
I before E except AFTER C. How do you play an I Chord? What key is it in? In the key of A it is the A chord. In the key of E it is the E chord. etc. etc. etc.
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Post by brucemacneill on Aug 22, 2017 12:27:59 GMT -5
How do you play an I Chord? What key is it in? In the key of A it is the A chord. In the key of E it is the E chord. etc. etc. etc. If this keeps going, remember that when you get to the IV chord, he's an RN and will probably put a needle in your arm.
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Post by millring on Aug 23, 2017 5:56:33 GMT -5
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Post by brucemacneill on Aug 23, 2017 6:02:06 GMT -5
So that's not an Onion article?
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Post by millring on Aug 23, 2017 6:28:14 GMT -5
So that's not an Onion article? Close. NYTimes.
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Post by Marshall on Aug 23, 2017 11:00:57 GMT -5
Too bad Bud Grant is no longer with us. They could have Grant and Lee do the play by play. And have Bobby Sherman do the half time show. "The night they tore old Dixie down."
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Post by aquaduct on Aug 23, 2017 11:03:25 GMT -5
Too bad Bud Grant is no longer with us. They could have Grant and Lee do the play by play. And have Bobby Sherman do the half time show. "The night they tore old Dixie down." Racist.
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Post by epaul on Aug 23, 2017 12:54:41 GMT -5
Bud Grant is still with us. Still hunting. Still having his annual garage sale. And still checking out the team at training camp. The guy is 90 and is in great shape. (he refuses to die until Sid does)
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Post by millring on Aug 23, 2017 13:16:00 GMT -5
There was a whole group of horticulturists who wanted to study grafting branches from fruit trees onto other kinds of trees. They applied for a bud grant.
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Post by Chesapeake on Aug 23, 2017 13:25:36 GMT -5
I think epaul's analogy of the chess grandmasters, and their relative situations, is quite apt. If, while boldly pressing an attack after Antietam or Gettysburg, a Union general had lost an army by some blunder or stroke of bad luck, it certainly would have prolonged the war, at a minimum.
On personal note, my great-grandfather James Owens was one of Jefferson Davis's personal bodyguards. His enlistment was up and they gave him his discharge at Greensboro, N.C., as the train evacuating Richmond was passing through that town. He walked all the way back to his farm in Fountain, in the eastern part of the state, dodging Yankee detachments and an even more feared presence, the Home Guard, a Confederate militia in charge of rounding up and executing deserters on the spot. Basically he followed Inman's general route (in Cold Mountain) in reverse. I have it only on my family's word that Jim wasn't himself a deserter: I've never bothered to look it up. But frankly I wouldn't blame him if he did just decide to bail out. Davis's grand plan at the time, so I understand, was to join up with Johnston, commander of the only major Confederate army left in the field, cross the Mississippi, and wage eternal guerrilla warfare from the West. Johnston surrendered anyway, and a Yankee cavalry unit spoiled Davis's escape when they caught up with him in Georgia.
Back to great-grandpap, the family story is he looked so disreputable from his harrowing journey back home that, when he showed up at his farmhouse, great-grandmam came close to blowing his head off.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2017 13:44:14 GMT -5
I just figure antifa took lessons from the Taliban. If the statue doesn't fit your religion, blow the fuckin' thing up. Worked for the Buddhist statues in Afghanistan. Ought to work here. It's certainly of a feather. Erase and rewrite history we don't like. Down the memory hole with it! We have always been at war with Eastasia! Oh my God, you're right! If we take down those statues of Robert E. Lee, there's no way we'll ever be able to remember him. No museums, no history books, no photos, no Ken Burns' "Civil War," no nothing. Zero. Zilch. Nada. Jeez....
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Post by brucemacneill on Aug 23, 2017 14:00:32 GMT -5
I think I already said this but if not, it's not about statues. It's about power. It's always about power, the power to force others to think your way.
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Post by Russell Letson on Aug 23, 2017 14:35:31 GMT -5
And if the chosen instrument is statues, comma, erection of?
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Post by brucemacneill on Aug 23, 2017 14:58:59 GMT -5
And if the chosen instrument is statues, comma, erection of? In my opinion, there's usually a better reason to put a statue up than to have a mob tear it down. Your mileage, I assume, will vary. For clarity, a political decision to remove a statue, arrived at by local government is not the same as a mob tearing it down. The mob is just exercising their power to force others to accept their beliefs whereas, the political decision should reflect the belief of the local majority.
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Post by Russell Letson on Aug 23, 2017 15:36:15 GMT -5
Monuments are generally less about thinking or knowing than about feeling--"we feel this way about X." Yeah, yeah, "lest we forget" and so on, but that function is more effectively fulfilled by a plaque or a museum exhibit or the Vietnam Veterans Memorial (which lacks inspirational figures but lists the dead*). Conventional military statuary emphasizes military values, or perhaps the values of those who directed the fighting--thus the heroic poses of all those equestrian statues. (And note the imagery of the Stone Mountain sculpture, which includes an equestrian Jefferson Davis along with Lee and Jackson. What's being memorialized there?)
* Interesting that the nearby Three Servicemen group is a much more low-key piece than many military monuments.
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Post by brucemacneill on Aug 23, 2017 15:51:33 GMT -5
Monuments are generally less about thinking or knowing than about feeling--"we feel this way about X." Yeah, yeah, "lest we forget" and so on, but that function is more effectively fulfilled by a plaque or a museum exhibit or the Vietnam Veterans Memorial (which lacks inspirational figures but lists the dead*). Conventional military statuary emphasizes military values, or perhaps the values of those who directed the fighting--thus the heroic poses of all those equestrian statues. (And note the imagery of the Stone Mountain sculpture, which includes an equestrian Jefferson Davis along with Lee and Jackson. What's being memorialized there?) * Interesting that the nearby Three Servicemen group is a much more low-key piece than many military monuments. You forgot the "IMHO" or is that below you? Most statues are erected by the winners but OTOH, you guys want participation trophies so I think you're being hypocrites on this stuff. The confederate soldiers were recognized as U.S. veterans back when those statues were being erected. This is just another rewrite of history by your side, which was on the losing side at the time.
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Post by Russell Letson on Aug 23, 2017 17:07:11 GMT -5
Bruce, having an opinion is not a vaccination against having that opinion countered. About the status and statues of Confederate veterans: As far as I can tell, many of the Confederate monuments were put up in the first quarter of the 20th century, with another bump around the time of the civil rights movement. CSA veterans were offered pardons soon after the war, and their burial sites were recognized by the War Department around the turn of the 20th century. They have been treated as war dead for a long time, which is not quite the same as being considered exactly the same as veterans of the legitimate national services. (Remember--they were pardoned for taking part in a rebellion.) And yes, I know about Public Law 85-425. The question of legal (as distinct from symbolic or emotional) veteran status is not crystal clear--I managed to find two pretty thoughtful pieces on it among the heavy-breathing-and-screaming matches that Google: www.civildiscourse-historyblog.com/blog/2015/10/10/editorialthink-piece-are-confederate-veterans-united-states-veteranswww.facingsouth.org/2015/07/busting-the-myth-that-congress-made-confederate-veBut the links between Confederate monuments and the Lost Cause accounts of the Civil War seem pretty clear, unless one is already buying into the Lost Cause mythology (which I think does qualify as a systematic rewriting of history). I'd say that removing statuary from courthouses and legislative precincts isn't a rewriting history--it's a refusal to buy into a century-long propaganda campaign. All of which you are free to disagree with--though I could do without the "you guys" sneers and the accusation of hypocrisy.
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