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Post by majorminor on Oct 19, 2017 9:48:21 GMT -5
Maybe we ought to have a volunteer army of 60 year olds whose good life is over . The wars would be a lot fucking shorter. And there would be naps. And nice lawns.
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Post by kenlarsson on Oct 19, 2017 9:59:00 GMT -5
There's a pretty good scifi novel about that,
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Post by millring on Oct 19, 2017 10:00:08 GMT -5
Maybe we ought to have a volunteer army of 60 year olds whose good life is over . The wars would be a lot fucking shorter. And there would be naps. And nice lawns. I'm seeing no down side.
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Post by brucemacneill on Oct 19, 2017 10:08:42 GMT -5
Then perhaps we shouldn't be allowing them to volunteer. Maybe we shouldn't have a system that allows people to volunteer to die if they don't know that's what they're volunteering for. Maybe we ought to have a volunteer army of 60 year olds whose good life is over and will soon be a net drag on the economy anyway. I don't think any of us was volunteering to die. At 18, you're immortal. Bad shit happens to other people.
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Post by millring on Oct 19, 2017 10:19:15 GMT -5
When I was 18 I didn't know anyone who volunteered. Everyone I knew -- including my three brothers -- was drafted. When I was 18 there were two groups -- one who already suspected the basket of deplorables running Washington was ready to waste their lives in half-fought, undeclared military action with no apparent connection to our Constitution or its defense, and the other who got drafted and served and died for nothing.
But, hey, if we want a volunteer force because we can sucker them in due to their lack of understanding what they're getting themselves into, let's get really young children instead. That would save us TONS of money. We could pay them with candy.
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Post by aquaduct on Oct 19, 2017 10:23:16 GMT -5
There are a lot of things you could say to a grieving family that would be true but inappropriate, like telling people who just lost an 80-year-old grandma, "well, she was old anyway," or someone who just lost a child, "we all have to go sometime." Or saying to the family of a fallen soldier that "he knew what he was getting into when he signed up." It's especially galling, even frightening, to know that is in the back of the mind of a CIC when he/she contemplates ordering soldiers into life-threatening situations. Maybe that's what all CICs have been thinking in every scrap our nation has gotten into since the advent of the all-volunteer force - and that was one of the early fears about the new order - but had more sense than to say out loud. What kind of a heartless bastard would speak in such a way to weeping parents and widows? It's just another example of how this individual lacks some vital element of basic humanity, including concern for people other than himself and his own family who are in distress. Conclusion jumped to and prematurely asserted as true. 15 yard penalty and loss of down. Reminds me of my late mother-in-law. Wife: Hey mom, you and dad still coming to visit in 2 weeks? MIL: Don't know, somebody could be dead. Wife: You do know that plans are allowed to change if somebody dies, right? Anyways, that's the perfect example of why the media isn't trusted and Democrats can't get any traction in beating Trump, despite their copious whining.
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Post by casualplayerpaul on Oct 19, 2017 10:38:46 GMT -5
Chesapeake said: "It's just another example of how this individual lacks some vital element of basic humanity, including concern for people other than himself and his own family who are in distress."
No matter your politics, this seems like one of the more indisputable conclusions one can come to after observing Trump for any length of time.
When he bragged that aids was his Vietnam, I think he sincerely thought the metaphor was apt. Getting laid when your a married millionaire can be dangerous and difficult.
If Donald didn't suffer, the suffering didn't happen.
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Post by majorminor on Oct 19, 2017 10:40:21 GMT -5
The wars would be a lot fucking shorter. And there would be naps. And nice lawns. I'm seeing no down side. You mean other than Depends costing $487 a pair?
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Post by dradtke on Oct 19, 2017 10:41:15 GMT -5
You mean other than Depends costing $487 a pair? Depends.
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Post by millring on Oct 19, 2017 10:47:02 GMT -5
You mean other than Depends costing $487 a pair? Yes, but military grade, kevlar Depends.
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Post by aquaduct on Oct 19, 2017 10:50:59 GMT -5
No matter your politics, this seems like one of the more indisputable conclusions one can come to after observing Trump for any length of time. And what exactly qualifies you to determine that I would be so stupid as to see things that way?
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Post by Chesapeake on Oct 19, 2017 11:15:30 GMT -5
There are a lot of things you could say to a grieving family that would be true but inappropriate, like telling people who just lost an 80-year-old grandma, "well, she was old anyway," or someone who just lost a child, "we all have to go sometime." Or saying to the family of a fallen soldier that "he knew what he was getting into when he signed up." It's especially galling, even frightening, to know that is in the back of the mind of a CIC when he/she contemplates ordering soldiers into life-threatening situations. Maybe that's what all CICs have been thinking in every scrap our nation has gotten into since the advent of the all-volunteer force - and that was one of the early fears about the new order - but had more sense than to say out loud. What kind of a heartless bastard would speak in such a way to weeping parents and widows? It's just another example of how this individual lacks some vital element of basic humanity, including concern for people other than himself and his own family who are in distress. Conclusion jumped to and prematurely asserted as true. 15 yard penalty and loss of down. Reminds me of my late mother-in-law. Wife: Hey mom, you and dad still coming to visit in 2 weeks? MIL: Don't know, somebody could be dead. Wife: You do know that plans are allowed to change if somebody dies, right? Anyways, that's the perfect example of why the media isn't trusted and Democrats can't get any traction in beating Trump, despite their copious whining. If you're referring to the conclusion (or assumption) many have that Trump really did say that, I've acknowledged a couple of times in this thread that he might not have, or at least not in those exact words. But the assumption does fit the widespread perception of Trump as lacking that characteristic of normally socialized human beings, empathy. Of course you could attribute that perception to fake news, but it's pretty hard to fake film of Trump playfully tossing paper towels into a crowd of hurricane victims.
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Post by brucemacneill on Oct 19, 2017 11:27:49 GMT -5
There's a lot of cleanup to do after a hurricane and throwing something sharp or heavy wouldn't have been too good either. The towels were probably handy. I think one could attribute that perception to fake news and be right most of the time.
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Post by Chesapeake on Oct 19, 2017 11:28:56 GMT -5
Then perhaps we shouldn't be allowing them to volunteer. Maybe we shouldn't have a system that allows people to volunteer to die if they don't know that's what they're volunteering for. Maybe we ought to have a volunteer army of 60 year olds whose good life is over and will soon be a net drag on the economy anyway. I don't think any of us was volunteering to die. At 18, you're immortal. Bad shit happens to other people. Exactly. For better and worse, 18-year-olds, and those close to that age, are the risk-takers. They're the ones who fight wars. Telling them not to fight enemies would be like telling roosters not to crow. They're the age group that, statistically, commit the most violent crimes. They fill up our jails.They're also the ones who ensure the survival of the species by having babies. And they're the ones who over the millennia have carried civilization forward, ventured into the unknown to find out what lay over the next mountain. We wouldn't have gotten very far without 18-year-olds.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2017 11:35:40 GMT -5
I'm chuckling here, as I realize the main difference between me at 18 and me at 51 is the absence of one letter - a "t".
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Post by majorminor on Oct 19, 2017 11:55:37 GMT -5
I'm chuckling here, as I realize the main difference between me at 18 and me at 51 is the absence of one letter - a "t". Tail and ail?
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Post by epaul on Oct 19, 2017 12:17:14 GMT -5
We drove to South Carolina to attend Gus’ graduation from Basic ceremonies. Day one was Family Day, which was kicked off with ceremony at an outdoor stadium (think small college football stadium), after which you got to go down to the field and claim “your soldier” and spend the rest of the day with him. Day two was the graduation ceremony, after which you again got to claim “your soldier”, spend the remainder of the day with him, and then see him off the next day to whatever travel arrangements would get him to the “specific job training school” he or she would be going to next.
So, when the program was done, we went down to the field, claimed Gus, poked around the base for awhile, then went to a picnic with several of Gus’ “Basic Buddies” and their families, then the next day we checked him out and drove him to the Army School of Music at Virginia Beach, where we got to spend two days kicking around with him before his school started.
(We got to stay at the Navy Hotel located on the School of Music campus; nice digs, great price, highly recommended…the Navy has just got nicer stuff than the Army)
Attending Family Day and Graduation ceremonies was an interesting experience. On Family Day, all of us parents gathered at the stadium to see our kids for the first time in about three months. We visited in the parking lot, in the slow moving entry lines, and in the bleachers while we waited for the program to start. There were military families proudly sending their kids into the family tradition; there were ‘first time’ parents, apprehensive and optimistic, proudly sending their kids into something new, exciting, unknown and worrisome; and there were parents, like me, who knew that when this training was over their kid would be back home in the basement rather than in Korea, Iraq, or Mississippi. I simultaneously felt part of and separate.
I could feel what Col. Paul has been saying. There was a placing of faith, trust, and belief in purpose that was palpable in that stadium… a ‘something’ that can’t be, shouldn’t be, but tragically too often is, wasted. I’m sure there was also some cynicism present and some ‘let’s get this overwithism’, (especially around the third time “I’m Proud to be an American” blared over the loudspeakers). And, yes, the desire for job training and school benefits was right up there with service and purpose. But, I was there as a neutral observer with an impatient fanny that had spent way too much time sitting over the last three days... and I felt the presence of faith and patriotism in that stadium with those families; the good kind, the needed kind, the kind that should not be wasted or abused. It was there.
Speaking of Lee Greenwood and “I’m Proud to be an American”, we got a healthy dose of that song. I have probably heard it enough for the rest of this lifetime and at least two of my next ones. During Family day, it got played twice over the loudspeakers during the pre-program period. And we got to hear it again when a singer Gus told us had been brought in from Las Vegas sang it as the concluding highlight of the program along with some fireworks, and oh, sweet Odin, if possible, he out Lee Greenwooded Lee Greenwood. He was good but, gag me.
The next day, during the graduation ceremony, “I’m Proud to be an American” got sung yet again. But this time, it was different. This time it was sung by a big sergeant who stepped out of the honor guard formation and up to a solitary microphone. And it really was a different song. It was a very different song. I hate that song but this time, this song, his song, nailed me. Charlene hates that song even more than I do, but when I looked over at her near the end, her eyes were moist. And when that big sergeant was done, there were no whoops, yelps or catcalls. For a couple precious seconds, there was silence. That sergeant had paid for that song and he owned it. And we heard it true.
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Post by millring on Oct 19, 2017 12:47:18 GMT -5
I'm chuckling here, as I realize the main difference between me at 18 and me at 51 is the absence of one letter - a "t". Tail and ail? Eigheen.
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Post by Cosmic Wonder on Oct 19, 2017 12:51:20 GMT -5
And maybe Trump shouldn't be president.
Mike
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Post by aquaduct on Oct 19, 2017 12:56:59 GMT -5
And maybe Trump shouldn't be president. Mike Well maybe somebody else can try winning an election.
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