|
Post by millring on Feb 16, 2018 15:04:08 GMT -5
I'm guessing that as we continue to go down the cultural road we've been speeding down toward ever more secularism and materialism, and away from the religion that used to opiate us, we're either going to have to find a new opiate or we're going to have to go the totalitarian route (which seems to be the one we're currently favoring) of our predecessors in history.
|
|
|
Post by Shannon on Feb 16, 2018 15:06:46 GMT -5
I'm guessing that as we continue to go down the cultural road we've been speeding down toward ever more secularism and materialism, and away from the religion that used to opiate us, we're either going to have to find a new opiate or we're going to have to go the totalitarian route (which seems to be the one we're currently favoring) of our predecessors in history. Opiate. Heh.
|
|
|
Post by aquaduct on Feb 16, 2018 15:10:35 GMT -5
I'm guessing that as we continue to go down the cultural road we've been speeding down toward ever more secularism and materialism, and away from the religion that used to opiate us, we're either going to have to find a new opiate or we're going to have to go the totalitarian route (which seems to be the one we're currently favoring) of our predecessors in history. I'll stick with mine- a pickup, a pitbull, and a couple bottles of scotch. Now get off of my lawn.
|
|
|
Post by Marshall on Feb 16, 2018 15:27:26 GMT -5
My goodness. So much far flung conspiratorial rhetorical BS.
Children have been shot and killed in their schools. This is becoming a recurring thing happening around this country. This is SERIOUS SHIT ! It deserves serious attention and discussion on all levels to try and lessen this unacceptable risk.
|
|
|
Post by fauxmaha on Feb 16, 2018 15:37:23 GMT -5
I'm guessing that as we continue to go down the cultural road we've been speeding down toward ever more secularism and materialism, and away from the religion that used to opiate us, we're either going to have to find a new opiate or we're going to have to go the totalitarian route (which seems to be the one we're currently favoring) of our predecessors in history. That's pretty much right out of Nietzsche. His statement "God is dead" is frequently misunderstood as being made with a sense of triumph. That is entirely wrong. It was made with a sense of dread. His view was that the 20th century would be marked by perpetual "flip flopping" between Totalitarianism and Nihilism. He was right.
|
|
|
Post by millring on Feb 16, 2018 15:47:53 GMT -5
So much far flung conspiratorial rhetorical BS. Where?
|
|
|
Post by aquaduct on Feb 16, 2018 15:53:16 GMT -5
My goodness. So much far flung conspiratorial rhetorical BS. Children have been shot and killed in their schools. This is becoming a recurring thing happening around this country. This is SERIOUS SHIT ! It deserves serious attention and discussion on all levels to try and lessen this unacceptable risk. I'm with ya', man. What's your proposal?
|
|
Dub
Administrator
I'm gettin' so the past is the only thing I can remember.
Posts: 19,904
|
Post by Dub on Feb 16, 2018 15:55:34 GMT -5
…This is SERIOUS SHIT ! It deserves serious attention and discussion on all levels to try and lessen this unacceptable risk.
|
|
|
Post by fauxmaha on Feb 16, 2018 16:40:11 GMT -5
|
|
Dub
Administrator
I'm gettin' so the past is the only thing I can remember.
Posts: 19,904
|
Post by Dub on Feb 16, 2018 16:46:22 GMT -5
Yeah, I saw that early this morning. There are reasons why the FBI is not respected in law enforcement circles.
|
|
|
Post by aquaduct on Feb 16, 2018 16:49:09 GMT -5
Yeah, I saw that early this morning. There are reasons why the FBI is not respected in law enforcement circles. And there are reasons why folks would rather take their chances with anybody but the government.
|
|
Dub
Administrator
I'm gettin' so the past is the only thing I can remember.
Posts: 19,904
|
Post by Dub on Feb 16, 2018 17:51:12 GMT -5
Yeah, I saw that early this morning. There are reasons why the FBI is not respected in law enforcement circles. And there are reasons why folks would rather take their chances with anybody but the government. Yeah, I get that. Government can’t really solve social problems or even provide much in the way of guidance. It can build armies and infrastructure and provide for enforcement of some (but not all) laws. It can take steps to ameliorate some of the effects of social problems on a temporary basis but that’s about it. I’m one who favors disallowing personal ownership of rapid-fire automatic and semi-automatic weapons. But I got to thinking about a forced national disarmament and realized that simply will never happen. How would that be accomplished? Would armed troops go door to door searching for illegal weapons? Is that what anyone wants? Would weapon owners just be asked to bring them in? What about a buyback program? How much would that cost and, after the money was spent, would we then be free of them? I don’t want children to attend school in a militarized compound and I don’t want to live in a monitored police state. Personal safety is not worth that price. Still, we shouldn’t simply give up. But actually doing something is hard. Really hard.
|
|
|
Post by brucemacneill on Feb 16, 2018 17:57:20 GMT -5
And there are reasons why folks would rather take their chances with anybody but the government. Yeah, I get that. Government can’t really solve social problems or even provide much in the way of guidance. It can build armies and infrastructure and provide for enforcement of some (but not all) laws. It can take steps to ameliorate some of the effects of social problems on a temporary basis but that’s about it. I’m one who favors disallowing personal ownership of rapid-fire automatic and semi-automatic weapons. But I got to thinking about a forced national disarmament and realized that simply will never happen. How would that be accomplished? Would armed troops go door to door searching for illegal weapons? Is that what anyone wants? Would weapon owners just be asked to bring them in? What about a buyback program? How much would that cost and, after the money was spent, would we then be free of them? I don’t want children to attend school in a militarized compound and I don’t want to live in a monitored police state. Personal safety is not worth that price. Still, we shouldn’t simply give up. But actually doing something is hard. Really hard. That's the problem, it's hard, someone's civil rights must be surrendered and someone has to decide whose. Who do we trust to make that kind of decision?
|
|
|
Post by epaul on Feb 16, 2018 19:01:40 GMT -5
This kid had enough checkmarks to fill two pages on the "keep an eye on this character" checklist. The checkmarks probably started accumulating by fourth grade (I'm being charitable).
The conversation probably shouldn't be about gun control. The conversation should be about people control. The signs are there. Boxes have been checked in every instance. But, who wants that conversation. Or to attempt that dark solution.
So, try some Federal level gun control measures that hunters like Don and the Major can live with (if not be fond of). Anything to put off the other conversation. Things would have to get much, much worse to go down that miasmic road.
(but, if it should ever come to pass, don't leave it up to some pointy heads from the psych department. The process should start with elementary school teachers and playground monitors. Not to end there, but that's as good a place to start as any.)
-the above is free flowing speculation for forum purposes only. It is not to be construed as either a fully considered or final opinion.
|
|
|
Post by fauxmaha on Feb 16, 2018 19:34:07 GMT -5
I was struck, and in a way impressed, by how blunt and unequivocal the FBI was in their statement.
That said, as in frequently the case, my questions are: Who's getting fired? Who's going to jail?
|
|
|
Post by aquaduct on Feb 16, 2018 19:50:10 GMT -5
I was struck, and in a way impressed, by how blunt and unequivocal the FBI was in their statement. That said, as in frequently the case, my questions are: Who's getting fired? Who's going to jail? It's the Federal government, you'll need more than egregious evidence of a serious f**k up. Like an indictment in stone penned by Satan himself in front of 80,000 witnesses. Well technically that's what's needed for a first offense. Nobody knows what it takes to actually fire a Fed (once they've passed a year of service that is).
|
|
|
Post by xyrn on Feb 16, 2018 19:52:48 GMT -5
This misses a major point. The second amendment is NOT about deer rifles and duck shotguns.
It's not about protecting oneself from burglars and rapists either.
It is about a free people keeping government in check.
I don't want to hear retorts about using a puny little AR-15 against Blackhawk helicopters and such. Yes, on my own I am no match against a tyranny, but millions of us are. The Colonists fought off the most powerful military in the world and we became citizens of America instead of subjects under the Crown.
But, if *you want to say it's about hunting for food then a bolt action deer rifle and a pump 12 gauge are gonna be the last things banned - and a deer rifle can be lethal at hundreds of yards and a 12 gauge could eradicate a classroom in little time.
So, either change the second amendment by the prescribed process so *you can legally strip me of my guns and freedom or respect the Bill of Rights and get *your hands off of em.
*By "you" and "your" I am speaking of gun-grabbers, NOT any specific forumite.
|
|
|
Post by Cornflake on Feb 16, 2018 19:58:26 GMT -5
Still treading lightly I hope, let me respond to a few statements.
"Government can’t really solve social problems or even provide much in the way of guidance. It can build armies and infrastructure and provide for enforcement of some (but not all) laws. It can take steps to ameliorate some of the effects of social problems on a temporary basis but that’s about it." I think you underestimate it, Mark. Government solved child labor, slavery, burning rivers and many other problems. I agree with Peter that some problems can't be solved. My problem is that I don't know which kind of problem this is. Doing something is hard but there are reasons for trying. One is that children have been dying. Another is that I'm troubled by the people who are clamoring to do something, anything, whether it makes sense or not. I haven't hunted in years, and don't expect to do so again, but I don't want to see unwarranted limits on responsible hunters because we let this come down to doing nothing or doing something stupid.
"That's the problem, it's hard, someone's civil rights must be surrendered and someone has to decide whose. Who do we trust to make that kind of decision?" Our elected representatives, Bruce. We haven't found any better way.
"(but, if it should ever come to pass, don't leave it up to some pointy heads from the psych department. The process should start with elementary school teachers and playground monitors. Not to end there, but that's as good a place to start as any.)" Can't agree, Paul. "Pointy heads" know things the rest of us don't. I'd like to know, as I said earlier, how well we can spot the nut jobs before they buy weapons. Teachers (bless them) can't tell me.
I hope that none of this comes across as offensive.
PS: Yeah, the FBI screwed up, as human institutions always have and always will. I'm more interested in preventing further incidents than in punishing lapses that contributed to past ones.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2018 20:05:23 GMT -5
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2018 20:33:48 GMT -5
I'm guessing that as we continue to go down the cultural road we've been speeding down toward ever more secularism and materialism, and away from the religion that used to opiate us, we're either going to have to find a new opiate or we're going to have to go the totalitarian route (which seems to be the one we're currently favoring) of our predecessors in history. That's pretty much right out of Nietzsche. His statement "God is dead" is frequently misunderstood as being made with a sense of triumph. That is entirely wrong. It was made with a sense of dread. His view was that the 20th century would be marked by perpetual "flip flopping" between Totalitarianism and Nihilism. He was right. Well sure. Getting rid of God got them right where they need to be. Give government more power. Disarm the law abiding. They'll never understand that without "God" all they have is man and 17 more dead ought to show them where that leads. But no, it's the weapon's fault. And now we're discovering that the FBI, for partisan political reasons, can waste resources investigating the Russian collusion BS and, apparently, fail to investigate this shooter who they were specifically warned about. And, of course, there's the "assault rifle". en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_Garand
|
|