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Post by Russell Letson on Nov 7, 2020 19:20:12 GMT -5
FWIW, here's the relevant exchange: Post by dradtke on Oct 6, 2013 at 7:17pm I'm of two minds on this - or half a mind, take your pick - but I'm coming down with Russell and John. I've never been fond of the "War on TerrorTM" brand. If we're going to declare war, then frickin' declare war, okay? But swoop down and nab a bandit, yank him out and hang him after a fair trial, I can do that. Post by Cosmic Wonder on Oct 6, 2013 at 7:29pm I kind of like the idea of Kuala Lumpur picking up Bush and Cheney and trying them for war crimes.
Three years earlier (Jan 29, 2010 at 2:52pm), Patrick posted this: Personally, I'd love to see Dick Cheney convicted at the Hague and thrown into a prison cell for the rest of his unnatural life, but that just ain't gonna happen in the real world. Any more than Nixon or Kissinger got convicted.
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Post by fauxmaha on Nov 7, 2020 19:21:03 GMT -5
Didn't look at it that way. Consider this: I'm sure that, like me, you see guys driving around in pickup trucks all the time. Rough guys. Rough trucks. NRA stickers. Calvin pissing on a Ford sticker in the window. A rack filled with ladders. Maybe pulling a trailer. Working guys doing real, heavy work. 35 years ago, your "blink" assumption was those guys were Democrats. Today, your "blink" assumption is those guys are Republicans. This is the inversion I've been talking about. Van Jones gets it. Andrew Yang got it, when he discovered that the label "Democrat" was absolutely toxic to the working class people he assumed would like his policies. There's been a complete inversion. The Democrats are now the party of the "elite", the "quality", the money. The Republicans are the party of the "deplorables". This inversion is going to continue to unfold.
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Post by Russell Letson on Nov 7, 2020 19:30:11 GMT -5
I spent more than a decade in deepest southern Illinois, after 21 years in rural central New York. I knew better than to assume that these guys were Democrats, unless maybe there was a union sticker somewhere on the vehicle.
In late spring of 1970, we hunkered down while some of them drove around Carbondale looking for hippie war protesters (that is, anybody under 30) to beat the shit out of.
Pull the other one, Jeff, it's got bells on.
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Post by jdd2 on Nov 7, 2020 19:34:35 GMT -5
I think there are a lot of young people who would be more than willing to help a couple of seniors move.
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Post by brucemacneill on Nov 7, 2020 19:45:53 GMT -5
As was suggested I wouldn't do but I already had done, search on "Bush Cheney" 01/01/2013 to date. Look at the last page, 3 or 4 I don't remember and you'll find Patrick and Mike Wonder discussing putting them on trial for war crimes and hanging them in October 2013. I was apparently replying to something said earlier so I must have been here earlier. Once I found an example, I stopped looking. Oh and BTW, I never lied to you guys although a lot of my stuff is sarcastic humor. If I say something actually happened, it happened. I'm from the home of sarcasm, Boston, Ma. and I don't apologize for it. Well, that's a lie actually, I'm from about 30 miles South of Boston but to foreigners like y'all, we just say Boston. Ok, I did see one post by Cosmic suggesting three specific individuals be tried, convicted and hung. Didn't see Patrick say the same. But it shouldn't need to be explained that using that as a justification for saying the same about me and other democrats on this forum is bullshit. Or saying that it's too bad JDD wasn't at Hiroshima. Or that you wished the Nazis had defeated Britain. Or that the best thing about abortion was that it killed future liberals. You might think what you're saying is "sarcastic humor," but it's just pure mean spite, full of insults and bile. Sorry you feel that way. Must be a bitch to be you.
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Post by brucemacneill on Nov 7, 2020 19:53:29 GMT -5
Didn't look at it that way. Consider this: I'm sure that, like me, you see guys driving around in pickup trucks all the time. Rough guys. Rough trucks. NRA stickers. Calvin pissing on a Ford sticker in the window. A rack filled with ladders. Maybe pulling a trailer. Working guys doing real, heavy work. 35 years ago, your "blink" assumption was those guys were Democrats. Today, your "blink" assumption is those guys are Republicans. This is the inversion I've been talking about. Van Jones gets it. Andrew Yang got it, when he discovered that the label "Democrat" was absolutely toxic to the working class people he assumed would like his policies. There's been a complete inversion. The Democrats are now the party of the "elite", the "quality", the money. The Republicans are the party of the "deplorables". This inversion is going to continue to unfold. Did you miss this one on Fox last week? Their token Democrat, Leslie Marshall, mentioned "Uneducated, white male Trump supporters". She hit elitist, racist, feminist all in one sentence. The token Republican stopped her and said, wait, uneducated white male Trump supporters? She said "Well I wouldn't have used those words" and he said "You just did". It hit FB and the comments from PHDs in Computer science, engineering and mathematics, voting for Trump, took exception to her words. That was funny.
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Post by aquaduct on Nov 7, 2020 20:03:11 GMT -5
You obviously don't go all the way back to 2001 when Supertramp and Farney were regularly advocating for that. You could ask Strick, if he was still around. Yes, I do. I'm also pretty sure that AG (a commercial, for-profit entity) would have booted the forum long before they did if people were "regularly" talking about murdering the president at the time. And really, you have to go back 19 years, and invoke the names of people who left long ago (who aren't around to defend themselves), to try to make a point? Feeble. In case you forgot, Bush was President from 2000 to 2008. Bitching about him was pretty much done by 2013. That was one year into Obama's second term. Everybody abandoned the commercial, for profit AG forum pretty early in the Bush term. Hey, you brought it up. Speaking of feeble.
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Post by coachdoc on Nov 7, 2020 20:14:50 GMT -5
Peter, could you lead us in song? Maybe Kumbaya? In "G" so Todd can play along (so none of that fancy jazz shit). Key of 'C'. Get cher facts straight.
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Post by Cosmic Wonder on Nov 7, 2020 20:27:51 GMT -5
FWIW, here's the relevant exchange: Post by dradtke on Oct 6, 2013 at 7:17pm I'm of two minds on this - or half a mind, take your pick - but I'm coming down with Russell and John. I've never been fond of the "War on TerrorTM" brand. If we're going to declare war, then frickin' declare war, okay? But swoop down and nab a bandit, yank him out and hang him after a fair trial, I can do that. Post by Cosmic Wonder on Oct 6, 2013 at 7:29pm I kind of like the idea of Kuala Lumpur picking up Bush and Cheney and trying them for war crimes.
Three years earlier (Jan 29, 2010 at 2:52pm), Patrick posted this: Personally, I'd love to see Dick Cheney convicted at the Hague and thrown into a prison cell for the rest of his unnatural life, but that just ain't gonna happen in the real world. Any more than Nixon or Kissinger got convicted. Jeeze, I said that? Well, I’ve softened considerably on Dubya. He turned out OK. Cheney/Voldemort? Not so much. Kissinger should have gone to prison too, or worse. Mike
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Post by epaul on Nov 7, 2020 20:30:33 GMT -5
Peter, could you lead us in song? Maybe Kumbaya? In "G" so Todd can play along (so none of that fancy jazz shit). Key of 'C'. Get cher facts straight. Oh, blow it out your butt, you ferret loving Democrat Yankee fan. "C" stands for Commie. And Cubs.
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Post by t-bob on Nov 7, 2020 20:31:08 GMT -5
I’m sure glad I know how to block rude people....... I don’t see that Forumite invectives & railing vituperation... full of insults and bile Thank you Marty & David for helping
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Post by fauxmaha on Nov 7, 2020 20:31:44 GMT -5
Consider this: I'm sure that, like me, you see guys driving around in pickup trucks all the time. Rough guys. Rough trucks. NRA stickers. Calvin pissing on a Ford sticker in the window. A rack filled with ladders. Maybe pulling a trailer. Working guys doing real, heavy work. 35 years ago, your "blink" assumption was those guys were Democrats. Today, your "blink" assumption is those guys are Republicans. This is the inversion I've been talking about. Van Jones gets it. Andrew Yang got it, when he discovered that the label "Democrat" was absolutely toxic to the working class people he assumed would like his policies. There's been a complete inversion. The Democrats are now the party of the "elite", the "quality", the money. The Republicans are the party of the "deplorables". This inversion is going to continue to unfold. Did you miss this one on Fox last week? Of course. I don't watch any of that. But the point is made anyway. Ever since Hillary's highly clarifying "deplorables" comment, the obviousness of the inversion has been absolute. Think LBJ thought in terms of "deplorables"? Of course not. WJC didn't either. But Hillary does, and she represents the opinion leaders of the party today. The core of the party is now rich urban sophisticates and rich urban sophisticate wannabes. One of the party's biggest problems is that that's exactly the demographic of the national media. When Hillary goes full deplorable, it simply doesn't register with them as a bad thing to say. They agree.
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Post by epaul on Nov 7, 2020 20:35:28 GMT -5
Boy, some of you guys have said nasty things. I'm proud to say I have never said a nasty thing to anyone on this forum, as any search will confirm.
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Post by fauxmaha on Nov 7, 2020 20:39:34 GMT -5
There's that one time I let is slip that Paul drinks cheap brandy. I've never stopped regretting that.
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Post by epaul on Nov 7, 2020 20:41:17 GMT -5
$7 isn't cheap!
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Post by epaul on Nov 7, 2020 20:42:03 GMT -5
Elitist!
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Post by aquaduct on Nov 7, 2020 20:42:37 GMT -5
There's that one time I let is slip that Paul drinks cheap brandy. I've never stopped regretting that. But I've got to admit, the pictures you showed me were damn funny.
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Post by coachdoc on Nov 7, 2020 20:42:43 GMT -5
Key of 'C'. Get cher facts straight. Oh, blow it out your butt, you ferret loving Democrat Yankee fan. "C" stands for Commie. And Cubs. Hey. I'm no Yankee fan. I taught my 3 year old son to call them the Crankies. (He thought that was swearing.) I'll let the rest stand.
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Post by james on Nov 7, 2020 21:01:50 GMT -5
It is not particularly "elitist, racist, feminist", in an analysis/discussion of voter demographics to refer to Trump's very noticeable popularity with non-college educated, white males (+30 points). Any psephological discussion is quite likely to do so. Campaign staff and political operatives of any stripe are keenly interested in these things. If Leslie Marshall quickly expressed regret for saying "uneducated" rather than "non-college educated" as reported, then it seems harsh to criticise her too much. A link to the conversation might help me better assess. Here's a quite interesting Fox news article about the voter demographics. www.foxnews.com/politics/fox-news-voter-analysis-trump-sees-strong-support-from-base-as-moderates-back-biden
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Post by Cornflake on Nov 7, 2020 21:07:48 GMT -5
"Think LBJ thought in terms of 'deplorables'? Of course not. WJC didn't either. But Hillary does, and she represents the opinion leaders of the party today. The core of the party is now rich urban sophisticates and rich urban sophisticate wannabes."
Jeff, there are days when I wonder how we wound up on such different planets. That doesn't sound even vaguely like the one I know.
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