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Post by billhammond on Nov 7, 2020 21:31:04 GMT -5
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Post by t-bob on Nov 7, 2020 21:49:52 GMT -5
Boy, some of you guys have said nasty things. I'm proud to say I have never said a nasty thing to anyone on this forum, as any search will confirm. epaul* Actually almost everybody..... has incorrect some kind of text email or the Forum. Some of it isn’t that nasty but sometimes people not pay attention and focus about what they’re saying. And you’re not attention what you’re thinking about some thing else. This actually happens when you’re tired damaged or you’re drunk or high. *You told me to do some things “I should try that farm housing in rural” I already did the farming 1970s. I said this right away “I’m not interested”. Some people tries to find a fit and you think it’s perfect. You are usually just thinking about yourself. Or maybe one should try different one.
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Post by Russell Letson on Nov 7, 2020 21:55:25 GMT -5
The core of the party is now rich urban sophisticates and rich urban sophisticate wannabes. Hmm. I look at my friends and acquaintances and don't see among them the stereotype implied (which seems lifted from a 30s movie like My Man Godfrey or A Night at the Opera). Now, most of my friends live in cities (St. Cloud is a city), most are fairly sophisticated about something (music, books, art, the restaurant biz, computers, accounting, veterinary medicine), but none are rich beyond the way most middle-class Americans are rich in global terms (nobody owns a boat bigger than a bass boat or a kayak). Several are classic retirees, living on savings and pensions or Social Security; two are on disability in assisted-living facilities. Then there was the guy cleaning the neighborhood laundromat the other morning and the old guy doing his wash. (I was another old guy doing a wash. All three of us watched the vote-counting coverage on the laundry's telly and bitched about Trump and the GOP.) If you're going to complain about stereotypes, watch your own characterizations.
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Post by t-bob on Nov 7, 2020 21:59:32 GMT -5
I watched the other IdiotJam thread and this rudeness and then I went to another website with piano music.
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Post by t-bob on Nov 7, 2020 22:05:52 GMT -5
Boy, some of you guys have said nasty things. I'm proud to say I have never said a nasty thing to anyone on this forum, as any search will confirm. epaul* Actually almost everybody..... has incorrect some kind of text email or the Forum. Some of it isn’t that nasty but sometimes people not pay attention and focus about what they’re saying. And you’re not attention what you’re thinking about some thing else. This actually happens when you’re tired damaged or you’re drunk or high. I’ve slipped a red herring sometimes I delete them if they’re bad rude thoughtsA thread started 2018. This was solutions for my housing Petaluma CA. 6 forumites has solutions. *You told me to do some things “You should try that farm housing in rural” I already did the farming 1970s. I said this right away “I’m not interested”. "I like suburban farming" Some people tries to find a fit and you think it’s perfect. You are usually just thinking about yourself. Or maybe one should try different one.
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Post by sekhmet on Nov 7, 2020 23:03:56 GMT -5
Sekhmet pokes her head in and sniffs the testosterone in the air.
Hey! Kamala Harris is great, eh? The ceiling fell down guys. Watch for glass.
I think I'll have a sip of Glenlivet to celebrate.
Aqua and Bruce - you guys gonna be okay?
You all know what I think so there's no point saying it. But it's been a good day altogether.
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Post by james on Nov 7, 2020 23:17:29 GMT -5
Kamala is like a breath of fresh air.
ETA - Jill too.
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Post by aquaduct on Nov 7, 2020 23:19:11 GMT -5
Sekhmet pokes her head in and sniffs the testosterone in the air. Hey! Kamala Harris is great, eh? The ceiling fell down guys. Watch for glass. I think I'll have a sip of Glenlivet to celebrate. Aqua and Bruce - you guys gonna be okay? You all know what I think so there's no point saying it. But it's been a good day altogether. Of course I'm going to be okay, but thanks for asking. Spent the day today down enjoying the Grilled Cheese and Tomato Soup festival and catching up with the neighborhood. Both the wife and I continue to work, the 'Rona hasn't concerned me in the least. If the Biden thing holds up, he and Kamala are locked in a pretty tight corner and can't hurt much at worst, and will probably take Jimmy Carter's spot as the worst president of my lifetime at best. The kids are great. And I'm starting a new band. What could be better? You?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2020 2:03:48 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2020 2:05:36 GMT -5
You know who I feel sorry for? I feel bad for all the G7 leaders who will no longer get the benefit of Ivanka's keen insights into pressing global issues.
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Post by fauxmaha on Nov 8, 2020 9:25:52 GMT -5
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Post by Marshall on Nov 8, 2020 11:39:54 GMT -5
Didn't look at it that way. Consider this: I'm sure that, like me, you see guys driving around in pickup trucks all the time. Rough guys. Rough trucks. NRA stickers. Calvin pissing on a Ford sticker in the window. A rack filled with ladders. Maybe pulling a trailer. Working guys doing real, heavy work. 35 years ago, your "blink" assumption was those guys were Democrats. Today, your "blink" assumption is those guys are Republicans. This is the inversion I've been talking about. Van Jones gets it. Andrew Yang got it, when he discovered that the label "Democrat" was absolutely toxic to the working class people he assumed would like his policies. There's been a complete inversion. The Democrats are now the party of the "elite", the "quality", the money. The Republicans are the party of the "deplorables". This inversion is going to continue to unfold. Interesting. But like all good science fiction, you’re expecting the present trend to continue on a straight line path to some future situation. But history never does that.
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Post by epaul on Nov 8, 2020 11:56:02 GMT -5
(umm, just two posts up on the same page I told Doc to blow it out his butt and called him a ferret-loving Democrat Yankees fan. The clearly juxtaposed comments were in jest and depended on the reader's ability to perceive both irony and purposed absurdity, the two roots of humor. No brag, self-deprecation.)
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Post by epaul on Nov 8, 2020 12:13:08 GMT -5
And while I'm at it, my comments about Todd purposefully spreading his feathers every single time he does his duck dance were also in jest, a purposeful exaggeration (a branch of absurdity/humor).
Todd has only purposefully spread his feathers during his duck dance three or four, maybe five, times. The rest of the times were accidental and due to exuberance, not that other thing. And he has only been arrested for it twice, not three times. And it is Art! Ok, Todd, there I've said it. Your dance is Art and you are an Artist! Satisfied?
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Post by fauxmaha on Nov 8, 2020 12:37:37 GMT -5
Consider this: I'm sure that, like me, you see guys driving around in pickup trucks all the time. Rough guys. Rough trucks. NRA stickers. Calvin pissing on a Ford sticker in the window. A rack filled with ladders. Maybe pulling a trailer. Working guys doing real, heavy work. 35 years ago, your "blink" assumption was those guys were Democrats. Today, your "blink" assumption is those guys are Republicans. This is the inversion I've been talking about. Van Jones gets it. Andrew Yang got it, when he discovered that the label "Democrat" was absolutely toxic to the working class people he assumed would like his policies. There's been a complete inversion. The Democrats are now the party of the "elite", the "quality", the money. The Republicans are the party of the "deplorables". This inversion is going to continue to unfold. Interesting. But like all good science fiction, you’re expecting the present trend to continue on a straight line path to some future situation. But history never does that. Not precisely. But I don't think the current inversion process is over, either. With the understanding that the brushes are all very broad here, Trump's message to the pickup-truck demographic was "I love you and I want to see you thrive". The message that demographic gets from the Democrats has for some time now been something like "We don't like your American flags, we don't like your guns, we don't like your NASCAR, we don't like your Jesus, we don't like your independence, we don't like your pickup truck, we don't like your mass-market beer, we don't like your McDonald's lunch, we don't like they way you think two restrooms are enough, but trust us. We're here to help you". Don't get me wrong in any of this. I'm not offering an opinion of the goodness or badness of any of this. Just observing. My personal view is that the election took place in the almost complete absence of any discussion or debate on anything important.
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Post by Russell Letson on Nov 8, 2020 13:04:47 GMT -5
You do realize, don't you, Jeff, that the aggressive segment of the "pickup truck demographic" gives every bit as good as it gets--and that some of those guys use their exaggerated masculinity and projected toughness as a shield against appearing soft or girly?
Our house has needed some maintenance and fixing-up over the last few years, and I've found the guys who have done the work to be perfectly OK--they put up with my looking over their shoulders and asking questions (it's as interesting as "This Old House"). They knew the kind of guy they were talking to--a soft-handed retired writer who can barely pound a nail straight--and we still got along just fine. Very different from the chest-thumpers with the "Fuck Your Feelings" teeshirts and oversize flags flying from their trucks.
It's not the demographic I find deplorable, it's the behavior and the shitty, confrontational attitude--and it's not class-bound. (And FWIW, my skilled-trades father and most of my uncles would have marked most of the teeshirt-and-flag guys as assholes, too.)
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Post by Cosmic Wonder on Nov 8, 2020 13:27:59 GMT -5
The problem with Jeff’s stereotypes, is this.
I’m liberal. I drive a 4x4 crew cab pickup. I like NASCAR. Before COVID, I met at McDonalds twice a week to have coffee and breakfast with other old farts. I’m just one guy, but there is a whole world out there that does not fit in to the broad brush syndrome.
Mike
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Post by coachdoc on Nov 8, 2020 13:42:17 GMT -5
'Don't get me wrong in any of this. I'm not offering an opinion of the goodness or badness of any of this. Just observing. My personal view is that the election took place in the almost complete absence of any discussion or debate on anything important.'
Sorry to disagree. The corona virus and how we deal with it is very important. Both medically and economically. I do believe that was discussed at length. Dismissed by Trump. Accentuated by Biden.
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Post by aquaduct on Nov 8, 2020 13:49:06 GMT -5
You do realize, don't you, Jeff, that the aggressive segment of the "pickup truck demographic" gives every bit as good as it gets--and that some of those guys use their exaggerated masculinity and projected toughness as a shield against appearing soft or girly? Our house has needed some maintenance and fixing-up over the last few years, and I've found the guys who have done the work to be perfectly OK--they put up with my looking over their shoulders and asking questions (it's as interesting as "This Old House"). They knew the kind of guy they were talking to--a soft-handed retired writer who can barely pound a nail straight--and we still got along just fine. Very different from the chest-thumpers with the "Fuck Your Feelings" teeshirts and oversize flags flying from their trucks. It's not the demographic I find deplorable, it's the behavior and the shitty, confrontational attitude--and it's not class-bound. (And FWIW, my skilled-trades father and most of my uncles would have marked most of the teeshirt-and-flag guys as assholes, too.) You do realize that any contractor you're paying pretty much has a fiduciary duty to be as nice as possible to anyone he/she is working for. Doesn't much mean in their off time they aren't the dumb ass rednecks generations of your family has loathed.
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Post by epaul on Nov 8, 2020 13:53:51 GMT -5
The Democratic party in Minnesota is called the DFL. In 1944, the Minnesota Democratic Party merged with the Minnesota Farmer Laborer Party, hence the new moniker, the DFL, Democratic/Farmer/Laborer.
It is widely recognized, by people, pundits, and press alike, that this coalition as it once existed does so no longer, the "F" and the "L" have clearly and indisputably so left the "D" (the primary exception being the Minnesota teachers union, Education Minnesota). The farm vote in Minnesota, once Democratic, has become close to 70% Republican. The Labor vote in north east Minnesota, the heart of the state mining and shipping industry once 100% Democratic has become 70% Republican. The white working class vote (the pickup vote) in Minnesota is approaching that same 70% R to D split.
I live here. It is clear. It is obvious. It is documented by countless Minneapolis Star Tribune articles detailing this dramatic political shift in Minnesota backed by fact and number.
The root cause of the split is clear- environmentalism vs jobs. The split has been deepened by the growing interests and power of urban minorities in the DFL vs the interests of rural whites.
I am not arguing good or bad to any of this, only that it has in fact occurred, is still occurring, and that it isn't a short term fad but is the result of a long developing divergence in the collection of interests that once made up the DFL. The F and L in Minnesota have gone Republican and the Democratic party in Minnesota is now representing a new coalition that is green, urban, minority, and techy. (to all this, somehow add in the "values" battle that plagues and bedevils the nation as a whole)
All interests in this state need and have the right to representation (yes, Hubert, the gang of four do deserve their seats at the table as they represent people that live, work and raise families here). And the interest groups that make up the parties have shifted, are shifting, and will continue to shift in the future.
And for the record, both parties have both Champaign drinkers and beer drinkers. But, for right now, the pickup metaphor is the real deal and it shows no sign of going away anytime soon.
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