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Post by aquaduct on Oct 22, 2021 10:35:37 GMT -5
I think the quickest path to chaos would be a massive grid failure. Once hunger sets in all bets are off. Don't know if that's likely. Like in Texas. Or California?
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Post by millring on Oct 22, 2021 11:47:04 GMT -5
It may be possible that we are going to see if the new opiate of the masses -- stimulus checks -- will be as effective as religion was. And we're going to see if it holds up economically. We've always known that the concept of money was based on social trust. I'd have to observe that there's not a whole lot of that going around these days, but at least the elites still have it, and they hold all the power. For now.
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Post by david on Oct 22, 2021 12:41:04 GMT -5
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Post by Russell Letson on Oct 22, 2021 12:46:05 GMT -5
John, just for fun, point to one society in which "the elites" didn't "hold all the power." I suppose some hunter-gatherer societies have had relatively flat hierarchies, but in any social organization complex enough to have permanent villages (and even in some migratory/herding communities), there's going to be something like leadership. Hell, even chimp troupes have top monkeys.
For some reason, this exchange from The Wild Bunch comes back to me:
Pike Bishop: He gave his word. Dutch Engstrom: He gave his word to a railroad. Pike Bishop: It’s his word. Dutch Engstrom: That ain’t what counts! It’s who you give it to!
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Post by millring on Oct 22, 2021 12:48:20 GMT -5
You disguised the change of categories almost perfectly. I bet almost nobody caught it.
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Post by Russell Letson on Oct 22, 2021 13:16:30 GMT -5
I didn't realize I was that clever. In fact, I'm not clever enough to see where the category shift might be. Maybe in the nexus between trust and power-of-the-elites? Between free money and religion?
And I have to say, what I see among at least some segments of "the masses" is a distinct lack of trust--or, to be precise, a strange distribution of trust. "Don't trust the government"; "don't trust the medical researchers"; "don't trust the school board"; "do trust Facebook posts/Joe Rogan/talk radio"; and so on.
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Post by Rob Hanesworth on Oct 22, 2021 13:40:07 GMT -5
To answer definitively the question asked in the thread title, it is scheduled for next Thursday at 5:17 p.m. EDT.
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Post by millring on Oct 22, 2021 15:32:20 GMT -5
John, just for fun, point to one society in which "the elites" didn't "hold all the power." Ours, quite often until now.
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Post by millring on Oct 22, 2021 15:35:03 GMT -5
...and the change of categories was the conflating of elite with leadership.
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Post by Marshall on Oct 22, 2021 16:08:21 GMT -5
To answer definitively the question asked in the thread title, it is scheduled for next Thursday at 5:17 p.m. EDT. I better hit the liquor store before that then.
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Post by robjh22 on Oct 23, 2021 8:28:47 GMT -5
Collapse takes different forms. Target is closing yet another store in San Francisco (just like the pharmacy chains giving up on Chicago) because it is losing too much money to shoplifters who can't be forcibly stopped, except by cops, or prosecuted if caught. The police say it's the same people who burglarize cars in the city. The employees can't stop them, much less wrest the merchandise away and return it to the shelves (Who wants a nice bag of Kit Kats that's just been forcibly removed from a thief's Jockey Shorts anyway?) The mayor is begging Target to stay, but is unembarrassed by city policy that makes it impossible to operate safely and profitably. californiaglobe.com/local/san-francisco/exclusive-iconic-target-store-in-mission-district-to-close-amid-a-shoplifting-tidal-wave/What if all the stores in SF similarly give up? And what would you do to fix this if you were king of San Francisco? Of course the denizens SF can't really complain if they continue to re-elect officials who won't prosecute crime.
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Post by james on Oct 23, 2021 12:54:40 GMT -5
The headline reads "EXCLUSIVE: Iconic Target Store on Mission St to Close Amid Shoplifting Tidal Wave" but at the bottom of the article it says, amongst other things,
"According to Joe Poulos, Target’s Senior Director of Communications, “The information posted to California Globe about our stores is not accurate. We are not closing the Mission St. store."
So that part of the story's a bit unclear.
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Post by Cornflake on Oct 23, 2021 14:02:18 GMT -5
As for the opening question, we have our problems. It strikes me that most of them are no more ominous than the problems previous generations have faced. The only reasonably plausible way I can see collapse happening is if climate change causes crop failures and other catastrophic events, which may well happen, particularly if we continue doing nothing except exacerbating the problem.
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Post by aquaduct on Oct 23, 2021 14:12:13 GMT -5
As for the opening question, we have our problems. It strikes me that most of them are no more ominous than the problems previous generations have faced. The only reasonably plausible way I can see collapse happening is if climate change causes crop failures and other catastrophic events, which may well happen, particularly if we continue doing nothing except exacerbating the problem. There's no evidence it is. It's a myth. Now if "climate change" continues to force ruinous policies, then you'll have catastrophic events. In real time. Guaranteed.
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Post by robjh22 on Oct 23, 2021 15:13:15 GMT -5
The headline reads "EXCLUSIVE: Iconic Target Store on Mission St to Close Amid Shoplifting Tidal Wave" but at the bottom of the article it says, amongst other things, "According to Joe Poulos, Target’s Senior Director of Communications, “The information posted to California Globe about our stores is not accurate. We are not closing the Mission St. store." So that part of the story's a bit unclear. Sure, they may ultimately elect to keep that particular store open. There are other chains that are giving up, not only in San Fran but also in Chicago. Why do you suspect that is? Anyway, I didn't see your proposed solution to the problem, assuming you believe it's a problem at all.
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Post by james on Oct 23, 2021 15:22:46 GMT -5
Sorry to disappoint you but I won't be writing that essay.
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Post by robjh22 on Oct 23, 2021 15:28:21 GMT -5
Sorry to disappoint you but I won't be writing that essay. That's okay. I've already read the explanation on the left wing websites I monitor. It's all part of a capitalist conspiracy to stigmatize homeless and marginalized people as thieves, or something like that. Down with the pigs. I'm pretty good at this!
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Post by theevan on Oct 23, 2021 15:42:30 GMT -5
The headline reads "EXCLUSIVE: Iconic Target Store on Mission St to Close Amid Shoplifting Tidal Wave" but at the bottom of the article it says, amongst other things, "According to Joe Poulos, Target’s Senior Director of Communications, “The information posted to California Globe about our stores is not accurate. We are not closing the Mission St. store." So that part of the story's a bit unclear. Sure, they may ultimately elect to keep that particular store open. There are other chains that are giving up, not only in San Fran but also in Chicago. Why do you suspect that is? Anyway, I didn't see your proposed solution to the problem, assuming you believe it's a problem at all. If Soundholers could refrain from shoplifting essentials (beer, bratwurst, guitar strings) we'd be well on our way to redemption.
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Post by theevan on Oct 23, 2021 15:45:56 GMT -5
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Post by james on Oct 23, 2021 16:05:21 GMT -5
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