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Post by theevan on Oct 17, 2021 5:11:36 GMT -5
I think it's fairly close. Those of us living in urban areas (especially dangerous ones like Baton Rouge!) would do well to have a plan B. We do, threadbare as it is. Anyway, the above is the title of an article I saw on the Book of Face. Best I can tell, the author is a libertarian/Ludwig von Mieses type of fellow. Excerpts: Brownstone InstituteIf I hear "Stay Safe" one more time I think I'll scream. I'd rather live dangerously, free, open to possibilities. You?
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Post by jdd2 on Oct 17, 2021 5:36:54 GMT -5
What is it, 700k dead, and 120k kids orphaned?
All that worry seems extremely US-centric. China, korea and japan are doing well. Maybe canada and mexico will collapse with the US? Or not?
Europe, too, is close to total social and economic collapse?
Or maybe it's that the world collapse if the US did?
Yeah, right...
The US might collapse, but the rest of the world will get along, and other countries will perhaps even embrace new advantages because of that. Kind of a creative destruction type of thing.
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Post by epaul on Oct 17, 2021 10:31:30 GMT -5
North Dakota is doing just fine, especially its Arts and Culture scene. "Annie" is still playing to a packed house. And there is a City Band concert coming up in November, plus a choir singing some damn thing in Latin for some damn reason. And the entire month of October is "Church Supper Month", along with November and December, which are also "Church Supper Months". Lot's of Art and Culture in ND. Too much, if anything, I could do with a little less just now. Oh, and Hockey Season is just around the corner! It is non-stop, I tell you.
So, things look just fine outside my window, and I've got one facing each direction.
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Post by howard lee on Oct 17, 2021 10:49:43 GMT -5
Not everyone is averse to working essential jobs.
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Post by aquaduct on Oct 17, 2021 11:20:16 GMT -5
Now that Biden's racked up more COVID deaths than Trump, I think COVID's well on the way to having completely burned itself out politically.
And I've never believed in the complete collapse into fascism. 50 large independent states with an intended anyways weak Federal apparatus makes a dictator remote.
I personally think the self inflicted wound of forced vaccinations and the resulting economic chaos is the beginning of the end.
And I think the weaponizing of the DOJ against parents whose kids are being subjected to leftist school indoctrination as graphically witnessed here in Virginia IS the end. Particularly with the guy in a skirt that's now raped two ninth grade girls in restrooms. Mama bear's pissed and that won't end well for the woke crowd.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2021 11:28:07 GMT -5
Come to Bakersfield. We have churches for all denominations, three Jewish temples Sikh,Hindu,Muslim, and Buddhist congregations, restaurants of all kinds, a great University, affordable housing, even a hockey team.
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Post by Marshall on Oct 17, 2021 14:08:40 GMT -5
I think that article is mostly paranoid BS.
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Post by aquaduct on Oct 17, 2021 14:19:42 GMT -5
Come to Bakersfield. We have churches for all denominations, three Jewish temples Sikh,Hindu,Muslim, and Buddhist congregations, restaurants of all kinds, a great University, affordable housing, even a hockey team. Bakersfield has nothing on Winchester and the greater DC (DMV) area.
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Post by Cosmic Wonder on Oct 17, 2021 15:29:20 GMT -5
Stay safe Evan.
Mike
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Post by TKennedy on Oct 17, 2021 15:54:16 GMT -5
There’s been a guy walking the streets of Alexandria with a “Societo/Economic Collapse Is Coming” billboard so it must be true.
Confirmation will be when it appears in the Echo Press.
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Post by robjh22 on Oct 17, 2021 16:31:40 GMT -5
What do we mean by "total" social and economic collapse?
If you mean anarchy of the Road Warrior variety, with warlords and autonomous zones every 200 miles or so, from here to Moscow, I don't think that's ever coming, unless one of those pyramid sized asteroids they're tracking lands in Manhattan. (Reminds me of "Mr. Bear Squash You all Flat.")
The reason is that people with the most power, and I'm thinking the CEO's and major stakeholders of Exxon/Mobil, J&J, Microsoft, Walmart, Boise Idaho, Proctor and Gamble, Con Agra, Wells Fargo, Amazon, Facebook and Microsoft, all those guys, don't want to destroy the system, or us. Control us, sure, but they have zero motive to end society. And you don't have just one man, with unlimited power, at the top of any of those organizations.
China is a problem, and they be hongry, but they don't want to destroy us, either, because they need someone to buy their crap!
If you mean partial and temporary collapse, the young losing hope and preferring to stay home than to get a job, some of our forumites's businesses destroyed, friends and neighbors no longer on speaking terms, and people losing the opportunity for social intercourse with those they played cards with, went to dance clubs with, jammed with (hello), I think that already happened, last year, and it sucked, but we're clawing our way out of it. Crowded football stadiums and community softball fields so attest. My wife's big hospital here in redneck anti-vaxx, mask-eschewing Texas, has almost ZERO covid patients.
We've reached the End of History, Capitalism won, and everyone, even your grandma if she's still with us, owns a share or two of Apple or Amazon in her 401K. We have more of an incentive and ability to save capitalism than any Socialist or Marauding Hun has to destroy it.
Another wild card is islamic terrorism, I suppose, but 9/11 made us more cohesive across the country, not less.
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Post by millring on Oct 17, 2021 18:55:21 GMT -5
This group is probably not going to believe in any impending collapse. And they/we may be right. Any group that is collectively so well off that their first reaction to news that Social Security may collapse was to ridicule anyone who depends on Social Security, is not a group worried about economic collapse.
Warsaw has an older, established neighborhood that touches one of our lakes on the north side. In fact, it's sort of hidden away by virtue of its being inside the bypass (unlike most of our other developments). The neighborhood was buffered on one side by the lake and on the other by a crescent of farmland between it and the bypass.
Earlier this year some developers managed to get that farm land. They sent notice to the people in the neighborhood and soon there was a BZA hearing -- the neighborhood challenging the developers to try to keep them from building their subdivision (and ruining the existing one).
The reason I bring this up is that one of the arguments put forth by the developers at the hearing is that Warsaw needs more affordable housing. And the affordable housing that the developers are proposing? ....starts at $300,000.
None of you are shocked. For you that's a yawn and a "well, duh."
I'm amazed. I'm amazed as I drive around the county and see $300,000 to $400,000 houses springing up like the tract houses of yesteryear. And people are buying them.
Meanwhile, we can't get enough people to fill the menial, not even blue-collar jobs. Even with the incentive of $15-$20 an hour. A few of the businesses are now offering pay-by-the-day just in hopes of raising some labor.
Between stimulus checks that have amounted to a level of income for the intended target greater than they had been making with their labor, a changing attitude about what is worth giving one's hours to, a still present though diminishing trust fund economy, and so many other factors, the economic divide is immense and growing.
There will always be a self-sufficient remnant -- the blue collar kids raised by blue collar parents with a rock solid sense that used to be referred to as "common". Somehow those diminishing few still remain beyond the reach of the institutions and academic world that has deemed what they've always held as "common" as now "nonsense", and often "deplorable".
And the elites cloister. They clump. They circle their gold-plated, air-conditioned wagons (the ones with the designer kitchens in them and HD tv by which to watch their favorite cooking shows). And then they feel guilty. So they give the deplorables a bread crumb or two and then congratulate themselves for their charity.
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Post by Marshall on Oct 17, 2021 20:40:50 GMT -5
I'm amazed by many things.
I think we here are dinosaurs and not a good measure of anything except profitability of the drug companies. But, moreover, every generation has crises, financial and otherwise. And every generation has old men hanging around bemoaning the current state of affairs and predicting impending doom. Maybe it'll happen eventually. I'm beyond doing much about it except voting my conscience every election. I'm certainly not looking under rocks for lurking monsters.
PS - The cost of a new house is pretty closely linked to the cost to build it.
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Post by theevan on Oct 18, 2021 19:44:16 GMT -5
This group is probably not going to believe in any impending collapse. And they/we may be right. Any group that is collectively so well off that their first reaction to news that Social Security may collapse was to ridicule anyone who depends on Social Security, is not a group worried about economic collapse. Warsaw has an older, established neighborhood that touches one of our lakes on the north side. In fact, it's sort of hidden away by virtue of its being inside the bypass (unlike most of our other developments). The neighborhood was buffered on one side by the lake and on the other by a crescent of farmland between it and the bypass. Earlier this year some developers managed to get that farm land. They sent notice to the people in the neighborhood and soon there was a BZA hearing -- the neighborhood challenging the developers to try to keep them from building their subdivision (and ruining the existing one). The reason I bring this up is that one of the arguments put forth by the developers at the hearing is that Warsaw needs more affordable housing. And the affordable housing that the developers are proposing? ....starts at $300,000. None of you are shocked. For you that's a yawn and a "well, duh." I'm amazed. I'm amazed as I drive around the county and see $300,000 to $400,000 houses springing up like the tract houses of yesteryear. And people are buying them. Meanwhile, we can't get enough people to fill the menial, not even blue-collar jobs. Even with the incentive of $15-$20 an hour. A few of the businesses are now offering pay-by-the-day just in hopes of raising some labor. Between stimulus checks that have amounted to a level of income for the intended target greater than they had been making with their labor, a changing attitude about what is worth giving one's hours to, a still present though diminishing trust fund economy, and so many other factors, the economic divide is immense and growing. There will always be a self-sufficient remnant -- the blue collar kids raised by blue collar parents with a rock solid sense that used to be referred to as " common". Somehow those diminishing few still remain beyond the reach of the institutions and academic world that has deemed what they've always held as "common" as now "nonsense", and often "deplorable". And the elites cloister. They clump. They circle their gold-plated, air-conditioned wagons (the ones with the designer kitchens in them and HD tv by which to watch their favorite cooking shows). And then they feel guilty. So they give the deplorables a bread crumb or two and then congratulate themselves for their charity. Every word of that resonates with me. Squares with what I see.
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Post by aquaduct on Oct 18, 2021 19:51:10 GMT -5
I'm amazed by many things. I think we here are dinosaurs and not a good measure of anything except profitability of the drug companies. But, moreover, every generation has crises, financial and otherwise. And every generation has old men hanging around bemoaning the current state of affairs and predicting impending doom. Maybe it'll happen eventually. I'm beyond doing much about it except voting my conscience every election. I'm certainly not looking under rocks for lurking monsters. PS - The cost of a new house is pretty closely linked to the cost to build it. So if the cost of a new house is based grossly inflated material costs, then the house cost/price is grossly inflated? How does that matter at all?
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Post by TKennedy on Oct 18, 2021 20:11:44 GMT -5
I have always been curious. What is the definition of an “elite” College education? Annual income? Square footage of dwelling? Number of toys with internal combustion engines? Is a college educated evangelical, anti vaccine, Trump supporter with a successful manufacturing business, six figure income, McMansion, four motorcycles, three snowmobiles, two four wheelers, a wake boat, and a Ford F 150 an “elite” We have quite a few of them in Alexandria. How about a college professor with a little two bedroom cottage, a 2004 Volvo, and a modest income? I am confused. Maybe this? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elite
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Post by aquaduct on Oct 18, 2021 20:19:40 GMT -5
I have always been curious. What is the definition of an “elite” College education? Annual income? Square footage of dwelling? Number of toys with internal combustion engines? Is a college educated evangelical, anti vaccine, Trump supporter with a successful manufacturing business, six figure income, McMansion, four motorcycles, three snowmobiles, two four wheelers, a wake boat, and a Ford F 150 an “elite” We have quite a few of them in Alexandria. How about a college professor with a little two bedroom cottage, a 2004 Volvo, and a modest income? I am confused. Maybe this? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EliteCan the guy with the F150 build a fence? Can the idiot with the Volvo? That's probably your answer.
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Post by TKennedy on Oct 18, 2021 20:26:21 GMT -5
I can build a fence, hell, a fookin storage shed, dock, raised garden bed, or guitar but then I have a Subaru Maybe I am a semi-elite.
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Post by aquaduct on Oct 18, 2021 20:54:31 GMT -5
I can build a fence, hell, a fookin storage shed, dock, raised garden bed, or guitar but then I have a Subaru Maybe I am a semi-elite. And you're probably not in the Federal government, are you?
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Post by david on Oct 18, 2021 21:25:36 GMT -5
Other than the food and entertainment businesses, I do not see a great change in my neighborhood. There is some price gouging for some items but I suspect that the consumer market will adjust. Markets change. I think that the change from Pampers to cloth diapers is great now that I don't have to change and wash them!) And if we need to start paying workers at McDonalds $50 per hour instead of $12 to get workers to show up, maybe that is just the new reality, maybe I will cook at home more, and maybe that McDonald's worker contribution to social security will help support the system.
The homeless problem existed long before Covid and I see it as more of a drag on society than Covid, one that I hope can be partially addressed with additional treatment for mental/drug dependency issues.
As to Americans' overall diminished work ethic, I think that is true. It might be a phenomenon that nations and/or societies just need to work through. I don't think it will cause a collapse.
The sky is not falling Evan.
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