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Post by theevan on Oct 25, 2021 4:51:29 GMT -5
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Post by jdd2 on Oct 25, 2021 5:12:28 GMT -5
So you buy into and are a purveyor of this stuff, eh?
Establishing this will somehow give your guy--turmp--a chance at 2024?
The US has shot itself in the foot--first electing trump and then its collective attitude towards the vaccine(s).
"Leader of the anti-vax world" -- truly a joke.
"Hey, there's a weaponized virus that's decimating our country."
"Dang it, no way I'm getting vaccinated. Mah freeedumb... And it's just the flu, and everyone is overreacting."
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Post by millring on Oct 25, 2021 5:21:23 GMT -5
Establishing this will somehow give your guy--turmp--a chance at 2024? You apparently don't read Evan's posts any more thoroughly than you read mine.
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Post by jdd2 on Oct 25, 2021 5:36:28 GMT -5
The US is embarrassing.
People who have had covid should of course still get the shots (as my sister did).
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Post by aquaduct on Oct 25, 2021 7:01:57 GMT -5
What?! You're not inspired by the genius of jdd2 and his sister?
Everybody else seems to be.
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Post by jdd2 on Oct 25, 2021 7:11:51 GMT -5
Trump had covid and he then got the shots.
He must be an uninformed idiot, huh?
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Post by aquaduct on Oct 25, 2021 7:53:43 GMT -5
What the hell does that have to do with anything? You aren't off your meds are you?
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Post by jdd2 on Oct 25, 2021 7:58:23 GMT -5
Okay, not a trumpie... got it.
What do you think of that fox news host--neil cavuto?
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Post by aquaduct on Oct 25, 2021 8:09:45 GMT -5
Okay, not a trumpie... got it. What do you think of that fox news host--neil cavuto? No, always been a Trump supporter. The suggestion that I'm not probably has the rest of the board laughing themselves to death. Don't really have an opinion on Cavuto. Seems like a nice guy. Again, are you sure you're feeling well?
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Post by theevan on Oct 25, 2021 8:39:23 GMT -5
So you buy into and are a purveyor of this stuff, eh? Establishing this will somehow give your guy--turmp--a chance at 2024? The US has shot itself in the foot--first electing trump and then its collective attitude towards the vaccine(s). "Leader of the anti-vax world" -- truly a joke. "Hey, there's a weaponized virus that's decimating our country." "Dang it, no way I'm getting vaccinated. Mah freeedumb... And it's just the flu, and everyone is overreacting." Not sure where this is coming from, brother. The article, while definitive in some aspects, also leaves some things unresolved.
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Post by majorminor on Oct 25, 2021 9:04:43 GMT -5
I saw a similar article go by recently....maybe the New Yorker? The thing that jumped out to me in that article was that in the several recent instances of a bat virus jumping to humans - SARS/MERS, etc. there was an intermediary host animal that was identified fairly quickly and with certainty. Like within months of the initial outbreak. So far the verdict is still out as regards Covid and there is no identified intermediary species identified yet despite us being 2 years out now.
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Post by epaul on Oct 25, 2021 9:37:44 GMT -5
Don't have time to read the article this morning, but there is a difference between using/supporting enhanced virus technology for medical research and using/supporting the development of "weaponized" virus for warfare. Just as there is a difference between using advanced chemistry for developing a safer herbicide for agricultural use or using advanced chemistry to develop a more potent mustard gas.
A dozen more examples could be cited. If I had time for it. Suffice to say, science has always been a two (or three) edged sword, and so it will continue to be. But, where would we be without it? (we wouldn't be) And new science will always be susceptible to suspicion and Frankensteinification. But, all science once was new, and again, where would we be without it? (and again, we wouldn't be).
Translating Fauci's support for enhanced virus research into support for weaponized viruses is a deliberate deceptive foulness.
None of which means the virus may or may not have escaped from the Wuhon lab or that it may or may not have been enhanced.
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Post by Cosmic Wonder on Oct 25, 2021 9:47:43 GMT -5
“ Frankensteinification”
This is why Epaul is my hero.
Mike
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Post by Russell Letson on Oct 25, 2021 10:52:42 GMT -5
Actual Vanity Fair headline: "In Major Shift, NIH Admits Funding Risky Virus Research in Wuhan."
Actual Vanity Fair subhead: "A spokesman for Dr. Fauci says he has been 'entirely truthful,' but a new letter belatedly acknowledging the National Institutes of Health’s support for virus-enhancing research adds more heat to the ongoing debate over whether a lab leak could have sparked the pandemic."
And a dozen paragraphs in, the most smoking gun would seem to be a grant application for some bat virus research that "DARPA rejected . . . , assessing that it failed to fully address the risks of gain-of-function research."
The body of the piece is peppered with subjunctive and conditional constructions, starting with the comment that Rand Paul "might have been onto something" about "risky coronavirus research." The evidence presented takes the form of suggestions and denials and what-ifs and certainly outlines a conflict over appearances as much as actual actions or inactions. What the article does not say is what the title of this thread asserts.
There could have been infection-enhancing research going on at Wuhan, and there are gaps and ambiguities in the record of who was doing what with what funding--but there is, so far, no evidence that it was for the purpose of "weaponizing" a virus. Blank spaces in an investigation do not inevitably prove such assertions, even if Rand Paul is convinced.
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Post by TKennedy on Oct 25, 2021 11:47:44 GMT -5
I have gotten a kick out of reading inflammatory headlines in sites like CNN and Fox and then actually reading the story which frequently bears little resemblance to the shock impact of the headline.
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Post by robjh22 on Oct 25, 2021 11:58:00 GMT -5
I'm conservative and independent, but as a defense lawyer, I'd tell Dr. Fauci to relax in the teeth of Sen. Paul's current and premature victory lap.
The question is not whether there was ever any gain of function research going on at the lab. The question is whether Dr. Fauci knew and/or countenanced it and knowingly concealed and lied about it. I don't think even his having "turned a blind eye" to dangerous research, if that's what happened, is enough to prove that he "lied" to Sen. Rand Paul.
We have talked in the Brandon thread about coarseness of language. There is also deterioration of language going on. Imprecision and gun jumping are everywhere. No WMD's found in Iraq? "Bush lied, People Died." But maybe the CIA told him ... "No, he lied."
"Lie" has become synonymous with error, mistake, exaggeration, misspeaking, anything less than full disclosure, and innocent, accidental misrepresentation.
That said, I do wonder whether Dr. Fauci wasn't a little too adamant and categorical in his denials about gain of function research. I don't think he was "lying," but how could he possibly know what Chinese techs in a Chinese-controlled lab were doing 24/7? Maybe the better answer would have been, "I have no knowledge of such research, Sen. Paul, and I have no reason to believe it is going on."
I think he and Sen. Paul are in a dick-measuring contest at this point.
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Post by robjh22 on Oct 25, 2021 12:19:23 GMT -5
I have gotten a kick out of reading inflammatory headlines in sites like CNN and Fox and then actually reading the story which frequently bears little resemblance to the shock impact of the headline. CBS Headline today: " 'You wouldn't think you'd go to jail over medical bills': County in Kansas is jailing people over unpaid medical debt." I knew this was either wrong or misleading. It had to be. We have no debtors' prisons. Turns out the jailing was for non-appearance in court, not failure to pay medical bills as insinuated. After TWO failures to appear, a warrant is issued for contempt. You can still fix it by going to the courthouse and saying, "I cannot pay this bill." "This raises serious constitutional concerns [note the useless and dramatic adjective]," said Nusrat Choudhury, the deputy director of the ACLU. "What's happening here is a jailhouse shake-down for cash that is the criminalization of private debt." Hyperbole of this kind reminds me why I dropped my membership in the ACLU years ago.
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Post by aquaduct on Oct 25, 2021 12:32:18 GMT -5
So all y'all seem to be saying you really can't trust the media?
'Bout time.
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Post by robjh22 on Oct 25, 2021 12:36:22 GMT -5
I've always been cynical, just not very vocal about it. I have discontinued watching the news on TV and rely on the WSJ almost exclusively.
I'm a capitalist pig.
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Post by james on Oct 25, 2021 12:43:53 GMT -5
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