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Post by james on Dec 9, 2021 17:52:43 GMT -5
It is quite warm in South Africa.
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Post by TKennedy on Dec 9, 2021 18:51:14 GMT -5
From the Start Tribune, Bill’s paper. Mirrors the stats everywhere.
The 1,653 COVID-19 hospitalizations in Minnesota on Wednesday also represented another record high for 2021, but growth has slowed this week. Unvaccinated Minnesotans make up the majority of hospitalizations. Sanford Health on Tuesday had reported that 190 of its 207 patients with COVID-19 hospitalized in Minnesota and the Dakotas were unvaccinated. Among 37 patients on ventilators, 35 were unvaccinated.
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Post by robjh22 on Dec 9, 2021 19:16:28 GMT -5
I continue to suspect that there are tons of unvaccinated people here in Texas who have covid but have no appreciable symptoms, or they think it's flu or a bad cold. Or they just don't care enough to report it, whatever it is.
But there are presumably the same groups in every state.
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Post by Cornflake on Dec 9, 2021 19:42:20 GMT -5
I continue to suspect that there are tons of unvaccinated people here in Texas who have covid but have no appreciable symptoms, or they think it's flu or a bad cold. Or they just don't care enough to report it, whatever it is. But there are presumably the same groups in every state. Almost certainly. I suspect that's why IHME, which tracks all this stuff, estimates the actual number of cases here as roughly 2X the reported number. Our state health officials have said essentially the same thing.
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Post by Village Idiot on Dec 9, 2021 20:23:24 GMT -5
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Post by aquaduct on Dec 9, 2021 20:24:24 GMT -5
It’s becoming very clear, vaccination and getting the necessary booster at the appropriate time is extremely safe, and although not 100%, is very effective for preventing serious illness requiring hospitalization/ICU treatment and death. I agree with Shannon, to think otherwise is delusional. You can legitimately argue about mandates and status of acquired immunity (which also fades over time) but the safety and effectiveness of the mRNA vaccines has been demonstrated to my complete satisfaction. Unfortuneatly, the vaccines have devolved to boosters every 6 months forever and twice on Sundays for every variant that crawls out from under a rock. And as theraputics like horse dewormer, I mean ivermectin, and others are proven to be effective despite active resistance from the medical community (ie- making it difficult to get), the vaccines are becoming less and less a priority for a lot of folks. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
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Post by coachdoc on Dec 9, 2021 21:10:29 GMT -5
Weather drives people indoors and int0 closer contact with others. I am beginning to doubt the wisdom of taking our planned weekend in Burlington.
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Post by TKennedy on Dec 9, 2021 21:11:04 GMT -5
A little reading material on Invermectin. Interesting drug. Be sure to read the referenced tables and where the studies were done. Sounds like the jury is still out on whether it has a major role in treatment. If I were at a craps table right now betting on whether it will become a game changer I’d take the don't pass line. Could be wrong www.covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov/therapies/antiviral-therapy/ivermectin/
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Post by coachdoc on Dec 9, 2021 21:12:25 GMT -5
From the Start Tribune, Bill’s paper. Mirrors the stats everywhere. The 1,653 COVID-19 hospitalizations in Minnesota on Wednesday also represented another record high for 2021, but growth has slowed this week. Unvaccinated Minnesotans make up the majority of hospitalizations. Sanford Health on Tuesday had reported that 190 of its 207 patients with COVID-19 hospitalized in Minnesota and the Dakotas were unvaccinated. Among 37 patients on ventilators, 35 were unvaccinated. Get the jab.
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Post by aquaduct on Dec 9, 2021 21:17:36 GMT -5
A little reading material on Invermectin. Interesting drug. Be sure to read the referenced tables and where the studies were done. Sounds like the jury is still out on whether it has a major role in treatment. If I were at a craps table right now betting on whether it will become a game changer I’d take the don't pass line. Could be wrong www.covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov/therapies/antiviral-therapy/ivermectin/The Federal NIH guidelines. You just made my point.
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Post by coachdoc on Dec 9, 2021 21:23:59 GMT -5
A little reading material on Invermectin. Interesting drug. Be sure to read the referenced tables and where the studies were done. Sounds like the jury is still out on whether it has a major role in treatment. If I were at a craps table right now betting on whether it will become a game changer I’d take the don't pass line. Could be wrong www.covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov/therapies/antiviral-therapy/ivermectin/The Federal NIH guidelines. You just made my point. Not. The NiH states inadequate data to support or contradict the use of ivermectin.
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Post by robjh22 on Dec 9, 2021 21:35:04 GMT -5
A little reading material on Invermectin. Interesting drug. Be sure to read the referenced tables and where the studies were done. Sounds like the jury is still out on whether it has a major role in treatment. If I were at a craps table right now betting on whether it will become a game changer I’d take the don't pass line. Could be wrong www.covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov/therapies/antiviral-therapy/ivermectin/This surprises me. I thought its proponents had been laughed into oblivion because it's used to de-worm horses (I know, it has other uses).
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Post by aquaduct on Dec 9, 2021 21:39:03 GMT -5
The Federal NIH guidelines. You just made my point. Not. The NiH states inadequate data to support or contradict the use of ivermectin. That's pretty much exactly what I said. And as theraputics like horse dewormer, I mean ivermectin, and others are proven to be effective despite active resistance from the medical community (ie- making it difficult to get), the vaccines are becoming less and less a priority for a lot of folks. And that's why people tend to be tuning out.
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Post by Shannon on Dec 9, 2021 21:45:07 GMT -5
Fact: Ivermectin is a great drug, when used for the appropriate conditions.
Fact: Ivermectin has not been proven to be effective in treating COVID. I review data from actual researchers, and it would be charitable to even say the jury is still out regarding Ivermectin and COVID. Actual data from high quality studies has not shown benefit. Further, many of the studies that did show benefit have been shown to be fraudulent.
Insult: Stating that the medical community, which is made up of conscientious health care workers (like me), would suppress or make difficult a readily available and inexpensive therapy that could save lives. Peter, do you really think that people like me would want to deprive our patients of Ivermectin if there really were credible evidence that it works? I wish every day for such a therapy. I would love to quit devoting time and resources to COVID. I would love for my friends and patients to quit spending time in the hospital or dying. I don't give a flying flip who gets the credit if a simple, cheap solution can be found. But I won't push therapies that are clearly unproven, and you shouldn't want me to.
It is fine with me if you hate Joe Biden and every government agency that exists. I couldn't care any less. If hate and anger float your boat, then set sail. I'll salute as you pass by. But your opinion on Ivermectin in relation to COVID is poorly informed, and your insinuation about the medical community is insulting.
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Post by coachdoc on Dec 9, 2021 21:55:28 GMT -5
Shannon, you are a flipping hero. You lay out the facts clearly and only quote established science.
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Post by aquaduct on Dec 9, 2021 22:00:48 GMT -5
Fact: Ivermectin is a great drug, when used for the appropriate conditions. Fact: Ivermectin has not been proven to be effective in treating COVID. I review data from actual researchers, and it would be charitable to even say the jury is still out regarding Ivermectin and COVID. Actual data from high quality studies has not shown benefit. Further, many of the studies that did show benefit have been shown to be fraudulent. Insult: Stating that the medical community, which is made up of conscientious health care workers (like me), would suppress or make difficult a readily available and inexpensive therapy that could save lives. Peter, do you really think that people like me would want to deprive our patients of Ivermectin if there really were credible evidence that it works? I wish every day for such a therapy. I would love to quit devoting time and resources to COVID. I would love for my friends and patients to quit spending time in the hospital or dying. I don't give a flying flip who gets the credit if a simple, cheap solution can be found. But I won't push therapies that are clearly unproven, and you shouldn't want me to. It is fine with me if you hate Joe Biden and every government agency that exists. I couldn't care any less. If hate and anger float your boat, then set sail. I'll salute as you pass by. But your opinion on Ivermectin in relation to COVID is poorly informed, and your insinuation about the medical community is insulting. A) It's cheap. B) It's proven safe over many years. So if one of your patients asked about it and wanted to try it simply because it's better than nothing, you wouldn't prescribe it? Seemed to work for Joe Rogan. And the question at hand is not what I'd do or even whether I'm angry about anything to do with COVID (I'm not), it's about why people are increasingly not buying the panic porn. That isn't insulting at all.
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Post by Cosmic Wonder on Dec 9, 2021 22:01:39 GMT -5
Shannon, you are a flipping hero. This^^^^ Mike
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Post by TKennedy on Dec 9, 2021 22:31:09 GMT -5
Excellent post Shannon. Nothing more need be said.
Medical conspiracy to suppress Invermectin? WTF? 😂😂😂😂😂
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Post by xyrn on Dec 9, 2021 22:34:49 GMT -5
We’re still in the thick of it in Minnesota. ZERO open ICU beds in the metro.
My ICU has 23 beds, we have 26 patients. 3 are on the vent out on the floors with ICU nurses caring for them. It’s really bad. We are literally putting pts in still-warm beds as soon as we transfer one out or have a death.
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Post by Village Idiot on Dec 9, 2021 23:05:51 GMT -5
Fact: Ivermectin is a great drug, when used for the appropriate conditions. Fact: Ivermectin has not been proven to be effective in treating COVID. I review data from actual researchers, and it would be charitable to even say the jury is still out regarding Ivermectin and COVID. Actual data from high quality studies has not shown benefit. Further, many of the studies that did show benefit have been shown to be fraudulent. Insult: Stating that the medical community, which is made up of conscientious health care workers (like me), would suppress or make difficult a readily available and inexpensive therapy that could save lives. Peter, do you really think that people like me would want to deprive our patients of Ivermectin if there really were credible evidence that it works? I wish every day for such a therapy. I would love to quit devoting time and resources to COVID. I would love for my friends and patients to quit spending time in the hospital or dying. I don't give a flying flip who gets the credit if a simple, cheap solution can be found. But I won't push therapies that are clearly unproven, and you shouldn't want me to. It is fine with me if you hate Joe Biden and every government agency that exists. I couldn't care any less. If hate and anger float your boat, then set sail. I'll salute as you pass by. But your opinion on Ivermectin in relation to COVID is poorly informed, and your insinuation about the medical community is insulting. Thank you, Shannon.
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