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Post by Village Idiot on Dec 9, 2021 23:08:22 GMT -5
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Post by epaul on Dec 10, 2021 1:08:01 GMT -5
]Unfortuneatly, the vaccines have devolved to boosters every 6 months forever and twice on Sundays for evebey variant that crawls out from under a rock. And as theraputics like horse dewormer, I mean ivermectin, and others are proven to be effective despite active resistance from the medical community (ie- making it difficult to get), the vaccines are becoming less and less a priority for a lot of folks. Fool me once,shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Fact: Currently, the original series of mRNA vaccines has proven to be very effective in preventing/mitigating the more serious outcomes associated with Covid. A booster shot of the same is proving to enhance and lengthen this protection. That is a current fact. As for the future, it is unknown. Covid is a brand new disease that has shown an ability to make minor mutations. The vaccines that have been developed to resist the disease are new and the duration of their protection or how they will fare against possible future mutations that haven't occurred yet can't be known. But, what is known is that these vaccines are effective currently and that a booster enhances that effectiveness. It is also known that the technology that developed these new vaccines is able to react rapidly to new challenges with new formulations if a need for such is established, which to date it has not. An emotional exaggeration that lacks a rational foundation: "... the vaccines have devolved to boosters every 6 months forever and twice on Sundays for evebey [sic] variant that crawls out from under a rock." Fact: No repeatable study has shown Ivermectin to an effective treatment for Covid. The medical establishment of this country and of every other country with a medical establishment has determined that Ivermectin can't be recommended as a treatment for Covid and that to do so based on what is currently known is irresponsible. An emotional exaggeration that lacks a rational foundation: "...therapeutics like horse dewormer, I mean ivermectin, and others are proven to be effective despite active resistance from the medical community.)
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Post by theevan on Dec 10, 2021 4:48:04 GMT -5
Weather drives people indoors and int0 closer contact with others. I am beginning to doubt the wisdom of taking our planned weekend in Burlington. Weather does indeed seem a factor...not the weather itself, but when it drives people indoors.
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Post by millring on Dec 10, 2021 5:01:44 GMT -5
Excellent post Shannon. Nothing more need be said. Medical conspiracy to suppress Invermectin? It's not a conspiracy. Not every instance of groups working together toward a common goal is the result of conspiring to do so. Common beliefs and goals is a far more rational explanation. Adding "conspiracy" to the conversation is much a tell as is opining that institutions do, indeed, work toward a common goal. Don't forget, it was less than a decade ago that we were told that we have the worst healthcare in the industrialized world, and it was ME calling bullshit on that --. though the doctors here took no offense at the slam on their profession.
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Post by aquaduct on Dec 10, 2021 7:08:39 GMT -5
]Unfortuneatly, the vaccines have devolved to boosters every 6 months forever and twice on Sundays for evebey variant that crawls out from under a rock. And as theraputics like horse dewormer, I mean ivermectin, and others are proven to be effective despite active resistance from the medical community (ie- making it difficult to get), the vaccines are becoming less and less a priority for a lot of folks. Fool me once,shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Fact: Currently, the original series of mRNA vaccines has proven to be very effective in preventing/mitigating the more serious outcomes associated with Covid. A booster shot of the same is proving to enhance and lengthen this protection. That is a current fact. As for the future, it is unknown. Covid is a brand new disease that has shown an ability to make minor mutations. The vaccines that have been developed to resist the disease are new and the duration of their protection or how they will fare against possible future mutations that haven't occurred yet can't be known. But, what is known is that these vaccines are effective currently and that a booster enhances that effectiveness. It is also known that technology that developed these new vaccines is able to react rapidly to new challenges with new formulations if a need for such is established, which to date it has not. An emotional exaggeration that lacks a rational foundation: "... the vaccines have devolved to boosters every 6 months forever and twice on Sundays for evebey [sic] variant that crawls out from under a rock." Fact: No repeatable study has shown Ivermectin to an effective treatment for Covid. The medical establishment of this country and of every other country with a medical establishment has determined that Ivermectin can't be recommended as a treatment for Covid and that to do so based on what is currently known is irresponsible. An emotional exaggeration that lacks a rational foundation: "...therapeutics like horse dewormer, I mean ivermectin, and others are proven to be effective despite active resistance from the medical community.) Not surprisingly, there are lots of people who simply don't buy your self proclaimed expertise. Nor should they.
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Post by aquaduct on Dec 10, 2021 9:01:47 GMT -5
Interesting. I wonder if Proboards contracts their "fact checking" to Facebook. Particularly since Facebook recently claimed their "fact checks" were only opinions in a lawsuit filed against them. Seems like they're getting increasingly worried about maintaining their Section 230 protections. Page 2, Line 8Anyways, I haven't asserted any facts. I merely discussed the reason a lot of folks are losing faith in vaccinations.
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Post by TKennedy on Dec 10, 2021 9:39:33 GMT -5
We should have a game clock on controversial threads. The participant that gets in the last word gets to proclaim themselves the winner. I can envision a Soundhole Powersnipe app.
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Post by dradtke on Dec 10, 2021 9:52:40 GMT -5
Last word. I win.
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Post by coachdoc on Dec 10, 2021 11:20:28 GMT -5
xyrn and Shannon. My thoughts and concern are with you. There is nothing worse in the E.D. than no open beds in the ICU. I live near DHMC and have at times needed to call as far away as Burlington, VT to get a transfer patient accepted. It is nerve wracking when all the beds shut down during flu season. Uh oh, flu season coming up. PS, this is more a personal message of concern to xyrn and Shannon, than a general post. Therefore it doesn't count as last word. Does it?
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Post by Marshall on Dec 10, 2021 11:34:28 GMT -5
It's not a conspiracy. Not every instance of groups working together toward a common goal is the result of conspiring to do so. Common beliefs and goals is a far more rational explanation. Adding "conspiracy" to the conversation is much a tell as is opining that institutions do, indeed, work toward a common goal. Interesting thought. We all use the term "Conspiracy" too loosely. We use it when an idea is put out there that contradicts our own view on the world. We've come to some conclusion based on firm evidence (ha ha) that has been presented to us by our respected sources. And we tend to believe anyone who does not accept that evidence/opinion as truth, much have nefarious intentions in their disbelief. Or at least they are knee-jerk following the opinions of other people who have ulterior motives in their desire to discredit the evidence we believe. Have a nice day. (Or at least conspire to have a nice day).
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Post by coachdoc on Dec 10, 2021 11:38:02 GMT -5
To you, Radtke.
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Post by david on Dec 10, 2021 12:43:32 GMT -5
Fact: Ivermectin is a great drug, when used for the appropriate conditions. Fact: Ivermectin has not been proven to be effective in treating COVID. I review data from actual researchers, and it would be charitable to even say the jury is still out regarding Ivermectin and COVID. Actual data from high quality studies has not shown benefit. Further, many of the studies that did show benefit have been shown to be fraudulent. Insult: Stating that the medical community, which is made up of conscientious health care workers (like me), would suppress or make difficult a readily available and inexpensive therapy that could save lives. Peter, do you really think that people like me would want to deprive our patients of Ivermectin if there really were credible evidence that it works? I wish every day for such a therapy. I would love to quit devoting time and resources to COVID. I would love for my friends and patients to quit spending time in the hospital or dying. I don't give a flying flip who gets the credit if a simple, cheap solution can be found. But I won't push therapies that are clearly unproven, and you shouldn't want me to. It is fine with me if you hate Joe Biden and every government agency that exists. I couldn't care any less. If hate and anger float your boat, then set sail. I'll salute as you pass by. But your opinion on Ivermectin in relation to COVID is poorly informed, and your insinuation about the medical community is insulting. Thanks, Shannon
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Post by james on Dec 10, 2021 14:34:48 GMT -5
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Post by jdd2 on Dec 10, 2021 16:25:45 GMT -5
Not only the best healthcare, but the best school lunches, too.
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Post by dradtke on Dec 10, 2021 16:36:56 GMT -5
xyrn and Shannon. My thoughts and concern are with you. There is nothing worse in the E.D. than no open beds in the ICU. I live near DHMC and have at times needed to call as far away as Burlington, VT to get a transfer patient accepted. It is nerve wracking when all the beds shut down during flu season. Uh oh, flu season coming up. PS, this is more a personal message of concern to xyrn and Shannon, than a general post. Therefore it doesn't count as last word. Does it? My daughter tells me of times sitting in the ambulance calling around from ER to ER to ER to find one with an open spot. That didn't use to happen. We had a big storm (wind, tornado, hail) moving in fast from the west, she was on the east side of the cities, and the only ER with space was in a far western suburb. She headed west into the storm full speed lights ad sirens, punched a hole through the storm and arrived at the ER as the rain was letting up. Cool and dramatic, but all because the hospitals are full of unvaxxed covid. Okay, next.
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Post by theevan on Dec 10, 2021 16:46:20 GMT -5
Since it has come to light that that the vaccinated can transmit as well as the unvaccinated I now feel I have rejoined the human race where being alive is dangerous.
I have no interest arguing vaccine, booster, et. al. What has always concerned me is the response. It has taken us over the edge in so many ways...economy, the terrible effects of isolation, fear, ruining livlihoods on a grand scale, crazy spending and now the resultant inflation. Most concerning of all is the loss of freedoms.
Very dark times lie just ahead.
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Post by james on Dec 10, 2021 17:04:48 GMT -5
We have known for months about transmission of the the Delta variant and it's predecessors by the previously vaccinated/covid infected. We also know that it has been less common than transmission by the previously unvaccinated/Covid infected. The new variant is changing the landscape all over again.
The people who have failed to learn the facts and heed medical advice previously, seem quite unlikely to me to change their ways in accordance with any present and future advice.
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Post by Marshall on Dec 10, 2021 18:35:26 GMT -5
Just found out that my HS classmate, bill Lee, died of COVID. So sad.
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Post by John B on Dec 10, 2021 18:49:00 GMT -5
Just found out that my HS classmate, bill Lee, died of COVID. So sad. Sorry to hear that. I read a different story about him that mentioned his prior health issues, too. Sounded like a great guy.
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Post by Cosmic Wonder on Dec 10, 2021 18:49:32 GMT -5
Most concerning of all is the loss of freedoms. What freedoms have been lost? I just spent a month in Hawaii. Ate out at a bunch of restaurants, from very high end to food trucks. Played at the beach. Saw all kinds of personal political expression, ranging from the common stop the steal right to the incarcerate Trump left, to native sovereignty movement. I did not see anyone’s freedoms being trampled. You are free to express whatever opinion you want. You may get pushback for your opinions. That doesn’t mean you aren’t free. It may mean your opinions are not well formed. Mike
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