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Post by gbacklin on Nov 19, 2022 13:47:26 GMT -5
OK, so I’m watching all this, and am amazed that anyone can screw up this badly, this quickly. Mike I’m not ready to call Twitter dead quite yet (I’m personally not going to use it as I have no need to) I’ve been through the “Apple is dead” and “Tesla will never make it as a car company, Elon has no experience in the auto industry” and will be just watching to see how this all evolves. By the way, the working till you drop strategy is often used to get rid of the slackers (as a manager I had once, referred to them) When I was in college, I took this one course and on the first day 35 students were awaiting the first lecture. When class began the professor started by saying “ This course has a lot of material to cover in a short time. So be prepared to spend around 6-7 hours a day, 7 days a week just to keep up with the assignments.” He then went on talking for about a half hour on the syllabus. He then said it was time for a 15 minute break. In the hallway all you heard was complaining about the proposed workload and that who does he think he is, I have a life you know. So a large group said it wasn’t worth it and left saying they were dropping the course. After the break only 6 (which I was one) returned. The opening comment by the professor was, “Good, it works every time. My opening speech is to weed out those who don’t want to work and learn, they just want an easy credit. Oh and by the way, there will be work but not beyond the normal time of twice the lecture time” which was standard for the computer programs at the time. (Late 70’s) It was a great course and he was a phenomenal instructor.
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Dub
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Post by Dub on Nov 19, 2022 14:27:42 GMT -5
I know nothing about Twitter’s work environment or previous management style, but it strikes me that they had a lot of employees for what they actually do. Sure, they need lots of data centers and skilled designers and developers plus support functions but they aren’t a manufacturer. They don’t need warehouses, stamping plants, assembly lines, etc. More users doesn’t necessarily require more staff or longer working hours.
I have seen knowledge workers fool themselves into thinking their value to their employer lies in their knowledge and experience. Those things do enable them to find employment and may determine their pay grade, but once employed, their value to their employer lies in what they accomplish, not what they know. People can forget that.
If Twitter outsources their data centers, and I assume they do, the remains staff level might be enough to operate effectively. If none of the key knowledge workers are left, that may not be true.
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Post by Cosmic Wonder on Nov 19, 2022 14:57:07 GMT -5
Well, the reported firing and then asking some of the fired to return to work certainly makes it appear that he hasn’t got a clue.
Mike
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Post by gbacklin on Nov 19, 2022 15:07:17 GMT -5
Well, the reported firing and then asking some of the fired to return to work certainly makes it appear that he hasn’t got a clue. Mike In all fairness, the Apple III and Lisa were tremendous failures. I had access to both. The initial Roadster wasn’t that great and could only be described as a POC. Even the second generation Roadster wasn’t industry changing and he was still being labeled as a rookie. I’m not saying that Twitter will be the best thing in the planet, but I’m willing to get some popcorn and watch it play out.
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Post by gbacklin on Nov 19, 2022 15:11:36 GMT -5
I know nothing about Twitter’s work environment or previous management style, but it strikes me that they had a lot of employees for what they actually do. Sure, they need lots of data centers and skilled designers and developers plus support functions but they aren’t a manufacturer. They don’t need warehouses, stamping plants, assembly lines, etc. More users doesn’t necessarily require more staff or longer working hours. I have seen knowledge workers fool themselves into thinking their value to their employer lies in their knowledge and experience. Those things do enable them to find employment and may determine their pay grade, but once employed, their value to their employer lies in what they accomplish, not what they know. People can forget that. If Twitter outsources their data centers, and I assume they do, the remains staff level might be enough to operate effectively. If none of the key knowledge workers are left, that may not be true. Actually the previous leader apologized for growing too quickly. time.com
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Dub
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Post by Dub on Nov 19, 2022 23:51:20 GMT -5
Well, the reported firing and then asking some of the fired to return to work certainly makes it appear that he hasn’t got a clue. Mike In all fairness, the Apple III and Lisa were tremendous failures. I had access to both. The initial Roadster wasn’t that great and could only be described as a POC. Even the second generation Roadster wasn’t industry changing and he was still being labeled as a rookie. I’m not saying that Twitter will be the best thing in the planet, but I’m willing to get some popcorn and watch it play out. John Scully had run Apple into the ground. Its obituary was being written. What saved Apple was Steve Jobs returning with the technology designed and developed at NeXT. That became OS X and was the start of bringing Apple back from the dead.
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Post by gbacklin on Nov 20, 2022 0:37:23 GMT -5
In all fairness, the Apple III and Lisa were tremendous failures. I had access to both. The initial Roadster wasn’t that great and could only be described as a POC. Even the second generation Roadster wasn’t industry changing and he was still being labeled as a rookie. I’m not saying that Twitter will be the best thing in the planet, but I’m willing to get some popcorn and watch it play out. John Scully had run Apple into the ground. Its obituary was being written. What saved Apple was Steve Jobs returning with the technology designed and developed at NeXT. That became OS X and was the start of bringing Apple back from the dead. At the time Steve came back Gil Amelio was in charge. I was at Rockwell in the late 80’s and Gil was brought in for one purpose, to turn a profit. So as most hatchet men do, reduced the head count to show profit in paper. So when Steve came back, the writing was in the wall for Gil. Steve then took the role as interim CEO and, trashed the last OS version 9.2.2 and introduced, as you pointed out, NeXTSTEP as OSX. The press at the time basically said, not even Steve could rescue Apple, then; if you remember Apple stuck a deal with Microsoft for a boatload of cash and agreement to share patents. Well the press went wild. “It is so bad at Apple, that they need cash from Microsoft to survive. Steve, please realize that Apple is dead” Kinda like the Dewey headline 😂 Elon, like Steve, knew how to assemble great minds and they both are not the greatest folks to work for. The biggest difference is that Steve’s conflicts were technical and business, where Elon has entered the political arena. Steve was more polished as a presenter and remained in the technical arena, while Elon has a wider scope of involvement. His vision is broader and across many areas. Is he spreading himself too thin ? Will Twitter fail ? We shall see. There are a lot of people that want to see him fail, not only at Twitter but also Tesla and Space X. By the way, about his compensation package was presented to the shareholders a year or so ago and was to be voted on, in the end year prospectus. The shareholders approved it. There was a series of milestones that had to be met for it to even be viable. They were all met. This was not an action that he decided one day to just take the money and run.
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Dub
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Post by Dub on Nov 20, 2022 1:05:18 GMT -5
I was at Rockwell in the late 80’s trashed the last OS version 9.2.2 and introduced, as you pointed out, NeXTSTEP as OSX. You were at Rockwell? Where? Which division? By 1991 or ’92, I had a NeXT Workstation on my desk. The pizza box, not the cube. A colleague and I were sent off to all the schools. I may still have the books. I could see that the NeXT Workstation and NeXTSTEP together made the best workstation I'd ever seen and we had Sun pizza boxes all over. There were so many great things about the NeXT; that the OS was basically BSD Unix, that they'd chosen the Mach kernel, that both printing and the screen were driven using the same PostScript code, the photorealistic icons, the development tools, and on and on. One could write in C or Objective-C, or anything supported in USB Unix. Comelete T EX environment. It was amazing. So far ahead of everyone else it was hard to explain to people. I soon downloaded Berners-Lee's original WWW client and started playing with the Web before anyone else had a browser. When Apple’s new OS X was introduced looking like NeXTSTEP, I knew Apple was on the way. I never bought another WinTel machine.
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Post by millring on Nov 20, 2022 5:46:30 GMT -5
He's a musk to avoid A complete impossibility
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Post by gbacklin on Nov 20, 2022 13:03:25 GMT -5
I was at Rockwell in the late 80’s trashed the last OS version 9.2.2 and introduced, as you pointed out, NeXTSTEP as OSX. You were at Rockwell? Where? Which division? By 1991 or ’92, I had a NeXT Workstation on my desk. The pizza box, not the cube. A colleague and I were sent off to all the schools. I may still have the books. I could see that the NeXT Workstation and NeXTSTEP together made the best workstation I'd ever seen and we had Sun pizza boxes all over. There were so many great things about the NeXT; that the OS was basically BSD Unix, that they'd chosen the Mach kernel, that both printing and the screen were driven using the same PostScript code, the photorealistic icons, the development tools, and on and on. One could write in C or Objective-C, or anything supported in USB Unix. Comelete T EX environment. It was amazing. So far ahead of everyone else it was hard to explain to people. I soon downloaded Berners-Lee's original WWW client and started playing with the Web before anyone else had a browser. When Apple’s new OS X was introduced looking like NeXTSTEP, I knew Apple was on the way. I never bought another WinTel machine. I was in the Switching System Division and just after they moved from Cedar Rapids to Downers Grove, IL just off Opus place in 1988-89. The computers out there were Vax 8800's running VMS. I was responsible for initially converting the Galaxy line of switches, term table generators from IFTRAN to VAX Fortran. My manager was Jamie Meyers. During that time, although I was not on that project, was a project using Sun workstations and LISP. The project was to use LISP and AI to develop a self learning network, to ensure the fastest node to node contact that can be achieved, by learning from each call and find the most efficient pathway. I got to play with the Sun, but soon after I left in 1989, I discovered NeXT. The rest was history. The LISP project was eventually terminated because Bell Labs, just down the way, came out with fiber optic for transmission, that changed the game completely. I do believe not too long after, they closed the Downsers Grove location. I still have my Turbo Station Color and Monocrome along with their laser printer. They are. both running the last version of OpenStep. The Mach kernel was the thesis project of Avie Tevanian from Carnegie Mellon. Its principal purpose was to enhance messaging, which as you know is the basis for all windowing systems. When I was with Chicago Research Trading/Nations Bank, I actually got to peruse the kernel's source code. Im glad that I didnt have to maintain it. It wasnt well documented
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Post by james on Nov 26, 2022 12:58:20 GMT -5
The new application that is getting a lot of attention at the moment is called Post. With the bigots, fascists and loons, their suspensions reversed, slithering in increasing numbers back to Twitter, I am hoping that it will be a less toxic option and am on their waiting list while they continue to develop their beta version. It looks like they're taking their time so as not to screw up too much too soon with the platform. post.news/
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Post by theevan on Nov 26, 2022 15:11:09 GMT -5
The new application that is getting a lot of attention at the moment is called Post. With the bigots, fascists and loons, their suspensions reversed, slithering in increasing numbers back to Twitter, I am hoping that it will be a less toxic option and am on their waiting list while they continue to develop their beta version. It looks like they're taking their time so as not to screw up too much too soon with the platform. post.news/Aha, a haven for the anti-free speech crowd.
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Post by james on Nov 26, 2022 15:18:40 GMT -5
Things learnt on Twitter. I haven't got room in my life for half-wits, bigots and loons all over my recreational timelines. They are free to speak as much as they want (and Musk allows) there and I am free to think "fuck that noise" and leave.
ETA - figured out how to set up a Mastodon account, did so and then started getting confused. I'll explore a bit more some rainy day.
Still mainly on Twitter but the unpleasant stench there is getting stronger fast.
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Post by Russell Letson on Nov 26, 2022 15:41:10 GMT -5
Seems to be a lot of semantic slop in any phrase that includes the term "free" (or any word that includes the stem free-)--free speech, free press, free trade, free lunch, free love, free will, free time, free from, free to, free-for-all, freestyle, gluten-free, land of the free. . . .
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Post by theevan on Nov 26, 2022 16:00:25 GMT -5
Things learnt on Twitter. I haven't got room in my life for half-wits, bigots and loons all over my recreational timelines. They are free to speak as much as they want (and Musk allows) there and I am free to think "fuck that noise" and leave. ETA - figured out how to set up a Mastodon account, did so and then started getting confused. I'll explore a bit more some rainy day. Still mainly on Twitter but the unpleasant stench there is getting stronger fast. Quite right James. That is the essence of free speech, or should I say unrestricted speech.
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Post by gbacklin on Nov 26, 2022 16:06:35 GMT -5
One thing that has been introduced in the arena of social media, unlimited courage to say anything behind a keyboard about anyone.
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Dub
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Post by Dub on Nov 26, 2022 16:30:21 GMT -5
The idea of freedom of speech and expression takes on new meaning when every one of eight billion individuals is given a world-wide megaphone. When a neighbor expresses an opinion that we don’t want to hear, we can walk away. The same is true when someone stands on a soapbox in Bughouse Square (it’s a Chicago thing) to save our souls or reform the American system of government. We can easily walk past and ignore it. If someone buys an electronic megaphone and stands on public land in front of your house screaming that you must change your ways, you become irritated and call the cops. The cops take the offender away, not because of his or her message but because they’ve become a public nuisance. No one is taking away their right to express their opinion, just enforcing noise and nuisance ordinances.
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Dub
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Post by Dub on Nov 26, 2022 16:59:38 GMT -5
You were at Rockwell? Where? Which division? By 1991 or ’92, I had a NeXT Workstation on my desk. The pizza box, not the cube. A colleague and I were sent off to all the schools. I may still have the books. I could see that the NeXT Workstation and NeXTSTEP together made the best workstation I'd ever seen and we had Sun pizza boxes all over. There were so many great things about the NeXT; that the OS was basically BSD Unix, that they'd chosen the Mach kernel, that both printing and the screen were driven using the same PostScript code, the photorealistic icons, the development tools, and on and on. One could write in C or Objective-C, or anything supported in USB Unix. Comelete T EX environment. It was amazing. So far ahead of everyone else it was hard to explain to people. I soon downloaded Berners-Lee's original WWW client and started playing with the Web before anyone else had a browser. When Apple’s new OS X was introduced looking like NeXTSTEP, I knew Apple was on the way. I never bought another WinTel machine. I was in the Switching System Division and just after they moved from Cedar Rapids to Downers Grove, IL just off Opus place in 1988-89. The computers out there were Vax 8800's running VMS. I was responsible for initially converting the Galaxy line of switches, term table generators from IFTRAN to VAX Fortran. My manager was Jamie Meyers. During that time, although I was not on that project, was a project using Sun workstations and LISP. The project was to use LISP and AI to develop a self learning network, to ensure the fastest node to node contact that can be achieved, by learning from each call and find the most efficient pathway. I got to play with the Sun, but soon after I left in 1989, I discovered NeXT. The rest was history. The LISP project was eventually terminated because Bell Labs, just down the way, came out with fiber optic for transmission, that changed the game completely. I do believe not too long after, they closed the Downsers Grove location. I still have my Turbo Station Color and Monocrome along with their laser printer. They are. both running the last version of OpenStep. The Mach kernel was the thesis project of Avie Tevanian from Carnegie Mellon. Its principal purpose was to enhance messaging, which as you know is the basis for all windowing systems. When I was with Chicago Research Trading/Nations Bank, I actually got to peruse the kernel's source code. Im glad that I didnt have to maintain it. It wasnt well documented I was at Rockwell from 1980 – 2002 and remember when Switching Systems moved. We still had Vax systems in spots but Engineering was mostly using Sun workstations with some HPs starting to show up. I think at that time I was in charge of the large IBM computing center that filled building 121 for Defense Systems. I remember using LISP in school at IIT. That's where I also used Exec-8. When I worked for Systems Engineering Corp., an IT consulting group, I remember using a GE mainframe in Richmond, VA, that ran GECOS. GECOS was the only commercial implementation of MULTICS that ever saw the light of day. As you know, UNIX grew out of Bell Labs and was created by now legendary people wanting to save the fundamental ideas behind MULTICS. The name UNIX grew out of the word eunuchs as it was an emasculated reconstruction of MULTICS.
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Post by Marshall on Nov 26, 2022 18:30:55 GMT -5
Seems to be a lot of semantic slop in any phrase that includes the term "free" (or any word that includes the stem free-)--free speech, free press, free trade, free lunch, free love, free will, free time, free from, free to, free-for-all, freestyle, gluten-free, land of the free. . . . I’m definitely in favor of free-lunch !
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Post by Marshall on Nov 26, 2022 18:32:57 GMT -5
What gets me about all this is no matter what platform big wheels are on, I hear about their comments thru mainstream media.
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