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Post by PaulKay on Mar 23, 2023 10:11:19 GMT -5
I wanted to play around with Bard but apparently had to put myself on a waiting list. I have a feeling that by the time I'm on the list I will have forgotten what I wanted to ask it in the first place. Which is to write a poem with "Nantucket" in it. I only got on the waiting list a couple days ago. It was faster than I thought it would be.
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Dub
Administrator
I'm gettin' so the past is the only thing I can remember.
Posts: 19,872
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Post by Dub on Mar 23, 2023 10:33:17 GMT -5
I wanted to play around with Bard but apparently had to put myself on a waiting list. I have a feeling that by the time I'm on the list I will have forgotten what I wanted to ask it in the first place. Which is to write a poem with "Nantucket" in it. I only got on the waiting list a couple days ago. It was faster than I thought it would be. I was on a waiting list very briefly to have access to the new Bing. I’m guessing they must have some kind of vetting algorithm. Either that or they need to manage the growth rate.
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Post by Marshall on Mar 23, 2023 10:39:51 GMT -5
Here you go: (and I dropped "it" near the end) I wanted to play around with Bard but apparently had to put myself on a waiting list. I have a feeling that by the time I'm on the list I will have forgotten what I wanted to ask in the first place. Nantucket !
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Post by epaul on Mar 23, 2023 13:55:09 GMT -5
Well, I am impressed, very impressed.
If you were a junior high English teacher and you received any of those Bard examples listed above from one of your students, the kid would get an A+.
And you would be praising the student for their use of figurative language,
and for their ability to metaphorically expand a theme, connecting a physical event to a series of human emotions
A 7th grader is an intelligent being, and if a typical seventh grader wrote any of the above AI examples, you would be floored.
(get real, if any number of graduating seniors turned in such work, you would entering the stuff in Google to see where the kid got it from).
And Bard isn't a 7th grader, Bard is still in its infancy. Holy Shit! is the only rational response to this. And I'm assuming Bard is a fair bit behind the "cutting edge" of AI. HOLY SHIT.
All we know of intelligence is intelligence is as intelligence does. And by that measure, AI certainly appears to be intelligent, nothing artificial about it.
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Post by epaul on Mar 23, 2023 14:03:58 GMT -5
And if someone slipped the lyrics from one of Bard's songs into a listing of lyrics from a typical collection of Top 40 Pop/County Hits, would it raise any eyebrows (other than the usual eyebrows any examination of pop/country lyrics can raise?)
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Post by Hobson on Mar 23, 2023 14:10:41 GMT -5
I'm on a FB songwriters' group where original songs are rarely posted. Lately one guy has been posting a lot of lyrics for songs, all drivel, and some extremely long. I can't imagine how most of them could be set to music. Now I'm wondering if he's playing around with Bard and posting the results as his own.
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Dub
Administrator
I'm gettin' so the past is the only thing I can remember.
Posts: 19,872
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Post by Dub on Mar 23, 2023 14:19:04 GMT -5
I'm on a FB songwriters' group where original songs are rarely posted. Lately one guy has been posting a lot of lyrics for songs, all drivel, and some extremely long. I can't imagine how most of them could be set to music. Now I'm wondering if he's playing around with Bard and posting the results as his own. If he’s been doing it for a while, it isn’t Bard. That just came online this week. Probably Chat-GTP-3 or -4.
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Post by Hobson on Mar 23, 2023 14:26:30 GMT -5
OK, can't be Bard. The guy has posted 15 sets of lyrics, starting on February 7. I don't like to tell people that their songs suck. After he posted the last meaningless rambling one, I did comment that it was a bit long for a song and that I didn't understand what it was about. I also asked what kind of music he was thinking of. Maybe I'm too nice.
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Post by jdd2 on Mar 23, 2023 16:36:03 GMT -5
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Post by aquaduct on Mar 23, 2023 20:49:49 GMT -5
OK, can't be Bard. The guy has posted 15 sets of lyrics, starting on February 7. I don't like to tell people that their songs suck. After he posted the last meaningless rambling one, I did comment that it was a bit long for a song and that I didn't understand what it was about. I also asked what kind of music he was thinking of. Maybe I'm too nice. When my wife and I were playing out a lot we were running with a bunch of sweet, lovely people who loved our music and were always bugging my wife for commentary on "songs" of their own. Maybe just sheets of lyrics. Maybe crappy bedroom recordings. Maybe actual CDs that they had put together. My wife kind of started responding (this was all new to us) but man, the worry that went into how to say "don't give up your day job" in a non-crushing way. After a little while it just became our policy of "glad you're having fun but we really don't have that kind of time". It was always easier for me. I don't write songs and I don't review them- full stop. Being too nice will drive you nuts.
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Post by TKennedy on Mar 24, 2023 10:06:44 GMT -5
It brings up an interesting aspect of how we listen to a song. Do we just let the whole thing wash over us, the arrangement, instrumentation, singing, phrasing etc and kind of tune out the actual words or do we focus on the words and message right away?
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Post by epaul on Mar 24, 2023 10:32:57 GMT -5
I am a "wash over" person.
I hardly ever pay any attention to the lyrics as a whole, just snippets and phrases. Half the time, I don't what group is responsible for what song. From kid-hood to now, most (not all) songs "wash over". For example, I've listened to and enjoyed all kinds of songs by the Doobie Brothers all my life, but I didn't and still don't know they were by the Doobie Brothers unless someone tells me... and a week later, they would have to tell me again. And even though I've listened and partied to the Doobies, I couldn't and can't for the life of me come up with a single lick, lyric, or song title of theirs. Their music has "washed over me" for years and years, but it's just part of a sea of music I listen and enjoy, but usually don't pay much attention.
My wife is the opposite. There isn't a musical, pop. or cowboy hit she can't sing at the drop of a hat. She knows the melody and lyrics to everything she has ever heard. I'm amazed. But, very different.
(as kid, the only pop group I can recall really "lyric listening" closely to was Simon and Garfunkle. I did listen to the Folkies. I wore out my P,P,& M, Kingston Trio, Dave Van Ronk, Judy Collins, and Dylan records.)
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Post by Cornflake on Mar 24, 2023 10:50:12 GMT -5
I'm pretty close-minded. I don't need to look at it to say **** it and the horse it rode in on.
"That poem has already been written." They all have, even the many that Bob Dylan flat-out stole from people who considered him a friend.
Even these lovely lines: "Words aren't enough. Whoever said they were? But while they last we say them and they are true."
I'll freely concede they're not mine. They "originated" with a guy named Tom Clark in the 1970s. I attended one of his readings. I'm pretty sure he borrowed them from someone. We all stand on the shoulders of many people.
Incidentally, I was recently trying to find the exact wording of Clark's poem. Google found it in an anthology of things you might say to someone you love. It was pretty close to: "I think you're beautiful. **** anyone who disagrees." Author unknown. Pretty damn moving.
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Post by PaulKay on Mar 24, 2023 10:56:56 GMT -5
It brings up an interesting aspect of how we listen to a song. Do we just let the whole thing wash over us, the arrangement, instrumentation, singing, phrasing etc and kind of tune out the actual words or do we focus on the words and message right away? Well.... let's ask Bard.. I highlighted the summary at the end... How should we listen to a song? Draft #3
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Post by Russell Letson on Mar 24, 2023 11:32:54 GMT -5
The creepy thing about AI-generated text is how well it mimics mediocre writing and trite sentiments. Which shouldn't be surprising, given that the underlying mechanism is statistical analysis of masses of sample material, much of which is mediocre and trite.
Getting a program to produce grammatically/syntactically acceptable English and coherent paragraphs is a triumph, but it's as much a result of enormous computational resources as programming. And the programming project has been going on for more than a half-century--a linguistics colleague of ours came to the university from a Cold War machine translation project. Cracking cross-language grammar was the first hurdle, and back in the 1960s it was a nearly impossible job. (There's an old joke: the machine translation of "Out of sight, out of mind" into Chinese was "Invisible idiot.")
More than 20 years ago, I researched a tech-magazine feature on what I suspect is one of the enabling technologies behind natural-language AIs: Bayesian statistical analysis, applied to the problems of optimizing search engines by producing networks of associations derived from a set of training documents. The programs didn't actually understand the texts, but they could infer topical connections by constructing elaborate tables. (That is the bleeding edge of my understanding of the subject.)
It's entirely possible that AI text can break the banality barrier by a combination of improved algorithms and more carefully managed training sets--just as photo/video software has come to produce very convincing deep fakes. Once that happens, we're profoundly fucked in the public-debate business, because all evidence will be potentially fakeable.
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Post by Cornflake on Mar 24, 2023 11:54:44 GMT -5
Amen.
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Post by jdd2 on Mar 24, 2023 17:41:14 GMT -5
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Post by millring on Mar 25, 2023 5:19:50 GMT -5
It brings up an interesting aspect of how we listen to a song. Do we just let the whole thing wash over us, the arrangement, instrumentation, singing, phrasing etc and kind of tune out the actual words or do we focus on the words and message right away? I'm a little of both, but one thing I've noticed about the way I hear music: 1. My immediate response to a song is relative to the "magic" in it. By "magic", I'm saying that it contains an element (usually either the harmony or a line of lyric) that is transcendent. 2. If it moves me and I want to capture it for my own (learn to play it because I relate to it), I have to remove the magic by analyzing it. 3. Once I've analyzed it -- de-mystified it -- and learned it, I rarely ever get the original "magic" back. Sometimes I do. Usually it's changed forever.
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Post by millring on Mar 25, 2023 5:47:12 GMT -5
I'd also offer that some really great music has some pretty ordinary lyric.
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Post by Cornflake on Mar 25, 2023 7:45:47 GMT -5
I'd also offer that some really great music has some pretty ordinary lyric. And vice versa. I think good songwriters do what they do best. "Come and Get Your Love" didn't rely on its lyrics but I loved it. I found lyrics easier but worked at being musically competent, to the point of writing a song in major pentatonic just for variety. My friend Charley was a jazz guitarist at heart and couldn't resist sticking in other notes. We were all in it for fun so I gave up trying.
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