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Post by Village Idiot on Jun 22, 2023 16:27:11 GMT -5
Awful, yes. But at least is came as a surprise, and there was no sitting around waiting for the inevitable going on. That would have been truly horrific.
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Post by Marshall on Jun 22, 2023 16:36:07 GMT -5
Yes. It would have been instantaneous.
At 12,500 feet below the sea, the water pressure on the hull would be on the order of 5,400 psi.
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Post by epaul on Jun 22, 2023 17:27:29 GMT -5
The New Republic magazine just ran a story naming OceanGate CEO Stockton Rush (on board the Titan when it imploded) as a large contributor to the Republican party and then listing those who received his contributions...
What the hell does that have to do with anything? What the hell?
What a bunch of over-eager sleazeballs. I could see some disgusting podcaster working out of his basement with a following of 12 dipping into that cesspool, but a professional reporter working for a national magazine?
Feed the beast, I guess.
But damn, am I sick of partisan hacks.
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Post by epaul on Jun 22, 2023 17:30:46 GMT -5
And the headlines of OceanGate CEO saying "Safety Doesn't Matter"? Good grief!
After putting up too long with a series of irritating questions, the guy said what all explorer types say, which was, if you want to be totally safe, stay in bed. It's a common retort by explorer types made in frustration over too many irritating questions from people they regard as ninnies.
Obviously the guy thought the sub was as safe as he could make it as he was in the damn thing himself when it blew up. He didn't just put others' asses in the sling, he put his own.
Equally obviously, there was a problem. But, the sub made many dives, with CEO guy in the first one. It proved itself as safe as any test available to the company could prove it to be. But, when you are at the leading edge of something, shit can happen. Perfect safety can't be guaranteed. Ask any astronaut or deep sea diver or test pilot
Explorer types have a higher than average early death rate. It's their choice. Their money. Their life as they chose to live it. Everyone on that sub knew they were dropping to one of the deepest spots in the ocean in a reinforced cigar tube. Their money; their choice.
The only question up for public debate, in my mind, is, how much money and effort should a government spend to rescue these folks who choose to take extraordinary risks in personal adventures that go south; risky adventures that serve no purpose but their own with no benefit to any but themselves. If you want to climb Everest, fine, go ahead. But, it's fair to question how many weeks of helicopter the public should pay for to find you and get you back down.
Assume the risk, pay the piper.
(But, that isn't how we roll. Save at any price)
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Dub
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Post by Dub on Jun 22, 2023 17:52:32 GMT -5
… But, when you are at the leading edge of something, shit can happen. Perfect safety can't be guaranteed. Ask any astronaut or deep sea diver or test pilot The only thing he was on the leading edge of was tourism. Tourists should expect to be reasonably safe.
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Post by drlj on Jun 22, 2023 18:37:06 GMT -5
… But, when you are at the leading edge of something, shit can happen. Perfect safety can't be guaranteed. Ask any astronaut or deep sea diver or test pilot The only thing he was on the leading edge of was tourism. Tourists should expect to be reasonably safe. Well, tourism, but only tourists who could pay 1/4 of a million for the ticket. The sub made 13 dives. That more than likely caused the hull to weaken with each dive until it imploded. I suppose the passengers felt like explorers but they were actually passengers on an underwater version of a sight-seeing bus.
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Post by Village Idiot on Jun 22, 2023 19:28:33 GMT -5
What irritates me to no end is when people ignore hurricane evacuation orders, go snowmobiling despite knowledge of high-risk avalanche warnings or take their boat out to sea despite the fact that an acknowledged impending storm is brewing, and the expectation that rescuers will make a heroic effort to save them despite the fact that doing so puts their lives at risk as well.
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Post by Rob Hanesworth on Jun 22, 2023 22:23:11 GMT -5
What irritates me to no end is when people ignore hurricane evacuation orders, go snowmobiling despite knowledge of high-risk avalanche warnings or take their boat out to sea despite the fact that an acknowledged impending storm is brewing, and the expectation that rescuers will make a heroic effort to save them despite the fact that doing so puts their lives at risk as well. Such activities should require the signing of a binding affidavit acknowledging that rescuers are NOT coming after you. (Rebuilding your house in a flood zone because "It's so pretty here by the river" should likewise require a waiver of insurance.")
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Post by Marty on Jun 22, 2023 22:58:44 GMT -5
I was also kinda wondering if someone on the sub freaked out and did something stupid.
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Post by epaul on Jun 22, 2023 23:26:02 GMT -5
I just read that there were giant suction marks on one the salvaged panels.
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Post by epaul on Jun 22, 2023 23:26:37 GMT -5
I read that right after I wrote it.
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Dub
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Post by Dub on Jun 22, 2023 23:29:26 GMT -5
I was also kinda wondering if someone on the sub freaked out and did something stupid. I don’t think anything like that is required to explain the tragedy. According to news reports, the Titan had a carbon fiber hull that was certified to a depth of 1,300 meters. The dive to the wreckage of the Titanic took the submersible to 4,000 meters, more than three times the certification depth. After repeated dives, it doesn’t seem surprising that accumulated stress eventually ended in structural failure. The passengers may have seen that the hull was going, but I doubt their lives would have lasted more than a second or two after the implosion.
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Post by TKennedy on Jun 23, 2023 8:13:38 GMT -5
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Post by Marty on Jun 23, 2023 9:04:10 GMT -5
I was also kinda wondering if someone on the sub freaked out and did something stupid The passengers may have seen that the hull was going, but I doubt their lives would have lasted more than a second or two after the implosion. Not even that long. The news used "instantly compressed to the size of a soup can" to be polite. But the truth is like stomping on an ant with a pile driver. Sorry.
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Post by John B on Jun 23, 2023 9:09:10 GMT -5
One explorer (who passed on a Titan dive) said it would take two nanoseconds for the ship to implode, but four nanoseconds for your brain to register what was going on. I may doubt his measurements, but I understand the sentiment.
I still think in my last nanosecond I might be thinking, "this is such a ripoff. I expected more for a quarter of a million dollars."
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Post by PaulKay on Jun 23, 2023 10:34:55 GMT -5
We would normally assume that the builder of this thing would have figured it out after only one crush event if only he weren't on board as well.
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Post by PaulKay on Jun 23, 2023 10:43:13 GMT -5
I was also kinda wondering if someone on the sub freaked out and did something stupid. I don’t think anything like that is required to explain the tragedy. According to news reports, the Titan had a carbon fiber hull that was certified to a depth of 1,300 meters. The dive to the wreckage of the Titanic took the submersible to 4,000 meters, more than three times the certification depth. After repeated dives, it doesn’t seem surprising that accumulated stress eventually ended in structural failure. The passengers may have seen that the hull was going, but I doubt their lives would have lasted more than a second or two after the implosion. As an engineer, this is the one thing that amazed me about the whole situation. This thing was clearly operating outside its certification parameters. There was even a letter written by a host of engineers warning them of what they were doing. And even after a dozen dives, they continued to ignore the risk posed by fatigue. I would hope that that business is pretty much dead too.
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Post by Marshall on Jun 23, 2023 11:13:53 GMT -5
I am very knowledgeable about fatigue. I’ll answer any questions right after my nap.
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Dub
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Post by Dub on Jun 23, 2023 15:36:00 GMT -5
I just read that, on a crypto site called Polymarket, people were placing bets on the outcome of the Titan tragedy.
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Post by TKennedy on Jun 23, 2023 15:48:43 GMT -5
Brace yourself for the conspiracy crowd.
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