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Post by Cosmic Wonder on Oct 17, 2023 0:00:29 GMT -5
Not our proudest moment, historically speaking.
Mike
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Post by Cornflake on Oct 17, 2023 8:37:14 GMT -5
Larry McMurtry, who grew up on a cattle ranch, once wrote about a study of cattle grazing in North America. The conclusion of the study was that we would have been much better off learning to eat bison and keeping European cattle out. I studied this subject years ago and I think that's true.
But we shouldn't beat ourselves up for not knowing what we didn't know until we learned it.
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Post by epaul on Oct 17, 2023 9:23:12 GMT -5
Don't think I would care to try milk a buffalo.
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Post by epaul on Oct 17, 2023 9:26:33 GMT -5
And I don't think the buffalo would much care for the barn.
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Post by epaul on Oct 17, 2023 9:26:58 GMT -5
Cows have been pretty darn good to us.
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Post by Village Idiot on Oct 17, 2023 20:34:26 GMT -5
Is this still on as a series tomorrow? I hate to say I forgot all about it.
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Post by Cosmic Wonder on Oct 17, 2023 21:22:54 GMT -5
Vi, it’s on at Eight o’clock here. Tonight is the second part of the series. Your schedule may be different. You might be able to stream it your local public broadcasting channel. Typical brilliant Ken Burns work.
Mike
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Post by John B on Oct 17, 2023 21:45:05 GMT -5
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Post by millring on Oct 18, 2023 5:34:34 GMT -5
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Post by Marshall on Oct 18, 2023 7:57:46 GMT -5
I'm all for dessertivication.
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Post by Village Idiot on Oct 18, 2023 10:48:07 GMT -5
Vi, it’s on at Eight o’clock here. Tonight is the second part of the series. Your schedule may be different. You might be able to stream it your local public broadcasting channel. Typical brilliant Ken Burns work. Mike I just checked, it was on in Iowa Monday and yesterday. I did find how to watch it on the computer, though.
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Post by Village Idiot on Oct 18, 2023 10:55:13 GMT -5
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Post by james on Oct 18, 2023 11:12:41 GMT -5
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Dub
Administrator
I'm gettin' so the past is the only thing I can remember.
Posts: 19,853
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Post by Dub on Oct 18, 2023 11:25:16 GMT -5
I’m anxious to watch this too. I remember it being discussed last spring but forgot to look for it.
I read in Charles Mann’s book 1491 that, prior to Columbus, there were no massive herds of bison. The indigenous people, who numbered in the millions, kept them hunted out. When 95% of the indigenous people died from old world diseases to which they had no immunity there was no longer any hunting pressure on the bison and they multiplied quickly. Three hundred years later, when European settlers came to the Great Plains, there were massive herds of bison.
On edit: To Todd’s point, the Great Plains, which had been carefully managed by the indigenous people, was not capable of supporting the newly unregulated herds.
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Post by RickW on Oct 18, 2023 12:53:37 GMT -5
Bison is actually quite tasty.
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Post by drlj on Oct 18, 2023 13:01:02 GMT -5
Bison is actually quite tasty. I love a bison burger at Sledder’s in Traverse City whenever we are there.
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Post by RickW on Oct 18, 2023 14:00:12 GMT -5
Bison is actually quite tasty. I love a bison burger at Sledder’s in Traverse City whenever we are there. I had a very nice bison steak in Calgary years ago, tender and tasty enough that I’d eat it any time.
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Post by Cornflake on Oct 18, 2023 19:59:14 GMT -5
"I read in Charles Mann’s book 1491 that, prior to Columbus, there were no massive herds of bison. The indigenous people, who numbered in the millions, kept them hunted out. When 95% of the indigenous people died from old world diseases to which they had no immunity there was no longer any hunting pressure on the bison and they multiplied quickly. Three hundred years later, when European settlers came to the Great Plains, there were massive herds of bison.
On edit: To Todd’s point, the Great Plains, which had been carefully managed by the indigenous people, was not capable of supporting the newly unregulated herds."
I have the same understanding, Mark. Maybe I got it from Mann's books. I'm never quite sure what was in 1491 and what was in 1493 but they were both very good.
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Post by epaul on Oct 18, 2023 20:44:03 GMT -5
Charles Mann is a writer who read widely and selected the conjectures (and numbers) he deemed most likely (or preferable). There is a wide range of opinions on what the available evidence suggests, and given the huge gaps in what is known, conjecture will remain conjecture and be subject to conjecture.
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Post by Village Idiot on Oct 18, 2023 21:47:49 GMT -5
Whenever this conversation comes along I think about the number of bison killed by indigenous people after the horse and the number of bison killed by indigenous people before the horse. After the horse I assume the main method of hunting involved weapons capable of killing only one animal at a time, like a bow and arrow or a rifle. Before the horse it's my understanding methods like chasing herds down on foot could mean hundreds of animals killed at one time by falling over a cliff or a ravine. I have no answer for which was more, but it is interesting speculation.
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