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Post by Cornflake on Apr 14, 2007 21:19:08 GMT -5
A "low-keyed harp" is new to me, and I do play harmonica. Whuzzat? One that plays a key in the lower letters of the alphabet?
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Tamarack
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Post by Tamarack on Apr 14, 2007 21:35:55 GMT -5
Posted by Cornflake on Today at 10:19pm :
A "low-keyed harp" is new to me, and I do play harmonica. Whuzzat? One that plays a key in the lower letters of the alphabet?
I don't know if "low-keyed" or "low-tuned" is the more appropriate term, but it is a 10-hole diatonic harp tuned an octave below the standard harp in that key. The low notes are particularly sonorous, and one can play fiddle tunes that reach into the uppermost holes without sounding unduly shrill.
A standard harp in F is notably shrill, either for playing straight harp in F or cross harp in C; using a low F harp cures this problem.
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Post by Cornflake on Apr 14, 2007 21:41:24 GMT -5
Thanks. I'll have to get one. Or two.
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Post by Cribbs on Apr 14, 2007 22:09:14 GMT -5
I actually have been! And just got online before turning in (early for me, especially on a Saturday night) and saw this thread explode into a lengthy, and although over my head, informative discussion.
I have been tinkering around with the Drop-D this weekend, and while I understand little to none of the methods being discussed in this thread, I can say without reservation that if I read this to a friend over the phone, they would probably think I knew what the hell I was talking about.
Bad storm rolling through tonight, so I am logging off and powering down. Hail, tornadoes, tons of rain which we need, and all the goodies that go along with those things.
I'll check in tomorrow. Y'all be good, and if you can't be good, be good at it.
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Post by Jawbone on Apr 14, 2007 22:24:12 GMT -5
Sir Dude Cribbs, I'm witcha and epaul here. But a good fight brings out the honesty.
Anyway, years ago, I found a real cool song called 'Fishin' Blues'. It's in drop D and in addition it's got an alternating bass pattern (MJH style) that when the two are mixed, it even makes me sound like a champ. I have it on paper and I don't have a scaner, so I'd have to send ya a copy if you want it.
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Post by Doug on Apr 15, 2007 4:11:24 GMT -5
Chris uses a low E on a few songs.
Cribbs, Sending you Long Haired County Boy good drop D song for ya.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2007 5:57:10 GMT -5
In response to this: “…there are so many VOICINGS and pitches that you simply cannot get on a guitar in standard tuning.” I stated, and still stand by this proposition: Should one care to understand chord construction and the notes on the fret board one certainly can obtain the voicings of one's desires (using a baritone guitar).
Somehow, certain misguided people – such as poor poor J – got confused (easy to do I guess) and understood my statement to mean that one can achieve the SAME SOUND/sonorities.
And as opposed to getting their thinking straight, J, El and Camalax (who all have something they are selling) persist in trying to alter my position to suit their position.
No one – well, maybe some people here – no rational person would dispute that given IDENTICAL INSTRUMENTS, in standard tuning, using strings made by two different manufacturers, two identical chord formations WILL SOUND DIFFERENT.
But that was not my original point: Should one care to understand chord construction and the notes on the fret board one certainly can obtain the chord voicings of one's desires and you don’t need to resort to alternative tunings.
Note I am not discussing chord sonorities. Have we all got it now? Can I type this any slower for you?
I encourage everyone to pick up a baritone guitar and try it before blindly defending the false argument that the instrument in standard tuning will produce the same chord sonorities as achieved in altered tunings. You may find that *GASP* I am correct - you CAN achieve very cool chord voicings that are every bit as satisfying and more.
J – one last thing: Don’t EVER accuse me of cheating.
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Post by theevan on Apr 15, 2007 6:21:49 GMT -5
The fact that J, El & Camalex have music to sell has nothing to do with the opinions they expressed.
Yes, I read their minds.
Your point seems reasonable enough to me, as does J's. We're all good, right?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2007 6:27:18 GMT -5
Morning The. Yes, we are all good.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2007 7:06:30 GMT -5
Should one care to understand chord construction and the notes on the fret board one certainly can obtain the chord voicings of one's desires and you don’t need to resort to alternative tunings. That's simply untrue. Putting aside the baritone guitar issue, one of the compelling features of the CGDGAD tuning, for example, is the lowered bottom string, which allows for a very powerful first-position C chord, of over two octaves in reach. That can't be done in standard, even with infinite knowledge of the fretboard. In fact, the first-position C chord in standard is really rather lame, and doesn't involve either the open 6th or the open 5th string. Secondly, the one-step interval between the 2d and 3d string in CGDGAD and DADGAD tunings allows for very effective and beautiful harplike effects, and bent notes as part of a scale or run. That can't be done in standard--or at least with the same effect. Thirdly, the first-position G major chord in CGDGAD tuning involves the open 5th, 4th, 3d and 1st strings, with a fretted note on the 2d string. It's, to my ears, much more appealing than the G chord in standard tuning, taking account of where the fretted notes are--particularly the fretted root note on the bottom string, which makes that chord kind of clunky to my ears. All one really has to do is to listen to the guitar as it's played in various tunings. I actually am not in disagreement with a view that David may have, but hasn't articulated--which is that use of open tunings just to make life easier, or to take short cuts, or just to noodle around with in a non-melodic way is not a good thing. I agree, although some great musicians do use different tunings tailored to particular songs and approaches they want--e.g., Joni Mitchell, Mary Chapin Carpenter, and David Wilcox, I believe--so that rule is more of a guideline to me. Standard tuning is a great tuning for playing in different keys in closed positions, with moving-chord shapes. That's a beautiful thing for some people, including jazzers and people in bands, where quick response to key changes can be essential. And in the hands of people like Pierre Bensusan, standard tuning can be really special. My personal issue regarding standard is that I've heard the chords and changes so much that there has to be something really special going on from the player before I get engrossed in the music. This is a personal thing with me-- your mileage may vary. El
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Post by timfarney on Apr 15, 2007 7:31:22 GMT -5
I'm glad you remember how this began, David -- with the implication that your chosen approach was for those who care to understand theory and their instrument. It has changed a bit - the distinction you are drawing between inversions and sonorities was not mentioned in your original post. It only contained the aforementioned condecensions and the offering up of a baritone as an alternative to de-tuning one string. The distinction between voicings and sonorities only came about as your original position crumbled. But I'm still glad you remember, sort of, where you began. Let's jump to where you left off yesterday...
So you began with condecension and ended with veiled threats. The middle was peppered with a handful of "WTFs" and "what's wrong with these peoples." But hey...yeah...it's morning. A new day. We're good.
Tim
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Post by Tim Alexander (fmrly. Camalex) on Apr 15, 2007 8:27:32 GMT -5
Tim -- I think we were called lemmings too.... but then I'm just repeating what I've heard from others.
David -- help me bit -- what exactly is a chord? I've understand everything you've said except for that chord thingie. Is that when I miss the note I expect to play and I scratch across 2 or 3strings on accident? I've always referred to those as accidentals. There are also times when I play melody notes outside of the key I'm playing in, you know like an occasion F natural instead of an Fsharp in the key D. Whaddaya call those thingies? Are they played the same way on a baritone?
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Post by John B on Apr 15, 2007 8:46:52 GMT -5
A baritone tuned in 5ths would provide a lot of open chords. Not open, but wide?
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Post by timfarney on Apr 15, 2007 9:39:04 GMT -5
Yes, and oddly enough, yesterday, my use of altered tunings was limited to a handful of songs in double drop D, but this morning I was struck with an almost instinctual drive to re-tune my grand concert to DADGAD and leap from a cliff, noodling all the way... Hey, but it's all good. Camalex - I think those accidentals and odd notes you're talking about are called jazz, but I can't be sure cuz I don't know nuttin' about notes an' the fretboard an' stuff. Tim
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Post by Tim Alexander (fmrly. Camalex) on Apr 15, 2007 10:54:26 GMT -5
Ah it's jazz. Boy you see, I come t this board, and I learn something new everyday.
Tim -- let's hook-up one night at Swannanoa -- even if you don't sign up for Guitar week. Doug Young, Anton Emery and other will be in attendance.
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Post by timfarney on Apr 15, 2007 11:00:40 GMT -5
Ah it's jazz. Boy you see, I come t this board, and I learn something new everyday. Tim -- let's hook-up one night at Swannanoa -- even if you don't sign up for Guitar week. Doug Young, Anton Emery and other will be in attendance. I'd love to get up there if I can. What are the dates? Tim
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Post by roylundelius on Apr 15, 2007 11:05:21 GMT -5
Other then the low D nothing really changes and most of the time your playing in the Key of D or B min. it isn't a big change.
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Post by Supertramp78 on Apr 15, 2007 11:41:30 GMT -5
This reminds me of a discussion waaaaay back on the old AG board when someone asked what the beig deal was with a cutaway guitar. "Why would one need it?" A few people said that it allows much easier access to those frets, expecially if your hands aren't as flexible as they once were and someone responded in a rather blunt way that "If you only knew proper technique you wouldn't need a cutaway."
A big fight followed where folks who used cutaways frlt that they were being told they didn't know how to properly play a guitar and the other side saying, effectively, that they didn't.
If I'm reading Mr. Bimbo's posts correctly, and heaven knows I'm capable of screweing that up, I think he is saying that while a standard guitar is capable of doing things in alt tunings that a standard guitar in standard can't (because nobody can dispute that point even if the person saying has something to sell or not), he feels no need to do those things personally and can play chords that are just as good without all those notes he can't hit and if you should want to do those things you should get a longer scale guitar. Agreed? Cool.
Now how about those people who don't want a baritone guitar and want to hit those notes? Use alt tunings. There are only a few hundred world class guitar players who have as much (and as hard as it might be to believe - maybe even more) knowlege of the fretboard as Lush does, who have decided that in order to play the songs they write, they need alt tunings. I've personally sat les than three feet away from some no name picker by the name of Muriel Anderson who tossed aside a perfectly good Olson guitar instandard tuning to play a lowly Goodall in DADGAD for a few tunes. Her explanation was, "It can't be played in standard." I guess she was stupid.
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Post by Jawbone on Apr 15, 2007 11:50:11 GMT -5
The longer I live, the more I realize the impact of attitude on life. Attitude, to me, is more important than facts. It is more important than the past, the education, the money, than circumstances, than failure, than successes, than what other people think or say or do. It is more important than appearance, giftedness or skill. It will make or break a company... a church... a home. The remarkable thing is we have a choice everyday regarding the attitude we will embrace for that day. We cannot change our past... we cannot change the fact that people will act in a certain way. We cannot change the inevitable. The only thing we can do is play on the six strings we have, and that is our attitude. I am convinced that life is 10% what happens to me and 90% of how I react to it. And so it is with you... we are in charge of our Attitudes.
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Post by Tim Alexander (fmrly. Camalex) on Apr 15, 2007 11:58:59 GMT -5
Tim - 7/29 - 8/4 is Guitar Week
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