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Post by casualplayerpaul on Sept 26, 2019 15:22:01 GMT -5
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Post by brucemacneill on Sept 26, 2019 15:24:23 GMT -5
My primary concern about the whistle blower report is that it's full of hearsay and the admission that the writer has no first-hand knowledge of what happened. That's not to say that the report is either inaccurate or false. It is un-vetted, however, and the meat of the report is based on communications with people who are as of yet unnamed. I'll be a lot more confident about the report's contents when the sources are identified and go on the record with their first-hand information. Unfortunately, the report is being circulated as if it's the Holy Grail evidence of Trump's misdeeds. It's not. How is this news or even a good topic for conversation when nothing has been verified except for Trump's admission that the conversation with the president of Ukraine happened? The feeding frenzy of people who are excited about the possibility that they've finally found Trump's "smoking gun" are the same people who have complained over and over about the Trump White House failing to properly vet appointees. Without anything that could be called evidence in court, this topic has been discussed over and over by so called experts for a week now. The rush to judgement includes a complete disregard for the idea of a person's innocence prior to being proved guilty. As a society is the best we can do? I feel about this much as I felt about Trump's insistence that Barack Obama wasn't born in the U.S.; it's bulls**t until someone provides verifiable facts. Sort of ironic that Trump is being hoist by his own petard at this point. Identifying the whistle-blower or any of the sources would be a breach of security. You'll never know who they are unless someone leaks it. That makes it the perfect crime.
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Post by millring on Sept 26, 2019 15:28:54 GMT -5
The CIA is spying on the White House and reporting to Congress and the press. Can you even imagine the thought of the CIA spying on the Obama White House? ...yeah, neither can I.
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Post by casualplayerpaul on Sept 26, 2019 15:28:59 GMT -5
My primary concern about the whistle blower report is that it's full of hearsay and the admission that the writer has no first-hand knowledge of what happened. That's not to say that the report is either inaccurate or false. It is un-vetted, however, and the meat of the report is based on communications with people who are as of yet unnamed. I'll be a lot more confident about the report's contents when the sources are identified and go on the record with their first-hand information. Unfortunately, the report is being circulated as if it's the Holy Grail evidence of Trump's misdeeds. It's not. How is this news or even a good topic for conversation when nothing has been verified except for Trump's admission that the conversation with the president of Ukraine happened? The feeding frenzy of people who are excited about the possibility that they've finally found Trump's "smoking gun" are the same people who have complained over and over about the Trump White House failing to properly vet appointees. Without anything that could be called evidence in court, this topic has been discussed over and over by so called experts for a week now. The rush to judgement includes a complete disregard for the idea of a person's innocence prior to being proved guilty. As a society is the best we can do? I feel about this much as I felt about Trump's insistence that Barack Obama wasn't born in the U.S.; it's bulls**t until someone provides verifiable facts. Sort of ironic that Trump is being hoist by his own petard at this point. In addition to hearsay, Trump and his personal lawyer's admissions alone are alarming. He continues to do the hoisting. Today he told a group of people who very well may be among the witnesses to the whistleblower's allegations that we need to treat spies more like we did in the old days. Any junior prosecutor in the country could get a witness tampering rap on that alone, were he not POTUS. Since the news has broken, they have openly confirmed quite a bit of what has been alleged. The so-called "transcript," the White House has released is also pretty damning stuff. We have seen this movie before. This does not get better for Trump as more facts come out.
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Post by lar on Sept 26, 2019 15:29:37 GMT -5
Look him up. It just mystifies me why Republicans are so blindly loyal to Trump when they could have a decidedly right-wing guy in there if they wanted, just without all the drama and head-spinning. Of course Pence would be an even worse nightmare for Democrats for that very reason. Much harder target. 'cause Trump has balls, doesn't owe Washington anything, doesn't need the job and is therefore free to do what he thinks is right to save what's left of the U.S. That's what he's doing, America First, and those with close Washington ties hate him for it regardless of which party they claim to represent. The people wanted someone who would represent them for a change. He's not a politician, in case you haven't noticed. He's a proud American, no apologies. I don't necessarily disagree with you Bruce. But I would like to add an admonition that it ain't entirely necessary to throw the baby out with the bath water. Trump could have, and in my opinion should have, accomplished what he's accomplished, and more, without putting the entire country at odds with itself. Not all of that is Trump's fault. The country was already divided and the Democrats have been as nasty to Trump as he's been to them. Still, and all, I've always thought that setting a good example is a fine idea and pays dividends.
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Post by aquaduct on Sept 26, 2019 15:29:41 GMT -5
Same thing could be said of the jerk offs that rammed the Steele dossier through the FISA courts. So what?
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Post by brucemacneill on Sept 26, 2019 15:47:22 GMT -5
'cause Trump has balls, doesn't owe Washington anything, doesn't need the job and is therefore free to do what he thinks is right to save what's left of the U.S. That's what he's doing, America First, and those with close Washington ties hate him for it regardless of which party they claim to represent. The people wanted someone who would represent them for a change. He's not a politician, in case you haven't noticed. He's a proud American, no apologies. I don't necessarily disagree with you Bruce. But I would like to add an admonition that it ain't entirely necessary to throw the baby out with the bath water. Trump could have, and in my opinion should have, accomplished what he's accomplished, and more, without putting the entire country at odds with itself. Not all of that is Trump's fault. The country was already divided and the Democrats have been as nasty to Trump as he's been to them. Still, and all, I've always thought that setting a good example is a fine idea and pays dividends. I don't blame Trump for the divide. Impeachment started the day after the election. He's in self defense mode. Nothing he could say or do would change a thing. He beat Hillary and that's unforgivable.
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Post by Chesapeake on Sept 26, 2019 15:48:00 GMT -5
Look him up. It just mystifies me why Republicans are so blindly loyal to Trump when they could have a decidedly right-wing guy in there if they wanted, just without all the drama and head-spinning. Of course Pence would be an even worse nightmare for Democrats for that very reason. Much harder target. 'cause Trump has balls, doesn't owe Washington anything, doesn't need the job and is therefore free to do what he thinks is right to save what's left of the U.S. That's what he's doing, America First, and those with close Washington ties hate him for it regardless of which party they claim to represent. The people wanted someone who would represent them for a change. He's not a politician, in case you haven't noticed. He's a proud American, no apologies. Well, thanks for that explanation. I think it's nuts, wrong on every single count, but thanks for giving it a shot.
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Post by brucemacneill on Sept 26, 2019 15:51:02 GMT -5
'cause Trump has balls, doesn't owe Washington anything, doesn't need the job and is therefore free to do what he thinks is right to save what's left of the U.S. That's what he's doing, America First, and those with close Washington ties hate him for it regardless of which party they claim to represent. The people wanted someone who would represent them for a change. He's not a politician, in case you haven't noticed. He's a proud American, no apologies. Well, thanks for that explanation. I think it's nuts, wrong on every single count, but thanks for giving it a shot. Yeah, well, you live around Washington. Of course you thing us deplorables are nuts.
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Post by Chesapeake on Sept 26, 2019 16:12:30 GMT -5
Okay, not nuts. How about misguided? (Not deplorable either, at least as far as I know.)
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Post by Cornflake on Sept 26, 2019 19:50:19 GMT -5
Never mind. Nothing anyone says will move anyone else a millimeter.
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Post by Chesapeake on Sept 26, 2019 20:34:16 GMT -5
I dunno. I think I detect a few degrees of weakening in Bruce's resolve.
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Post by epaul on Sept 26, 2019 20:35:16 GMT -5
You are too cynical, Cornflake Don. I will change my position for $20. Say the word.
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Post by fauxmaha on Sept 26, 2019 20:49:10 GMT -5
I'll change Paul's mind for $10.
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Post by Cornflake on Sept 26, 2019 20:54:56 GMT -5
I hear 20. I hear 10. Do I hear 5?
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Post by millring on Sept 27, 2019 6:47:24 GMT -5
Nobody is alarmed that the CIA is spying on the Trump White House? Do you think they similarly spy on every administration?
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Post by aquaduct on Sept 27, 2019 7:16:02 GMT -5
Nobody is alarmed that the CIA is spying on the Trump White House? Do you think they similarly spy on every administration? That was apparent from the beginning, particularly with the whole Russia fiasco. Isn't surprising at all. The only reason to not be alarmed is that the spies appear to be wholly functionally incompetent.
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Post by fauxmaha on Sept 27, 2019 8:01:07 GMT -5
Don paypal'd me the $10, but Paul's being stubborn.
This is going to be more expensive than expected, so I'm opening a Patreon account.
If you care about the country, children, and open government, I expect you to donate generously.
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Post by aquaduct on Sept 27, 2019 8:10:28 GMT -5
Don paypal'd me the $10, but Paul's being stubborn. This is going to be more expensive than expected, so I'm opening a Patreon account. If you care about the country, children, and open government, I expect you to donate generously. Check's in the mail (don't like to brag so I'll leave the amazing amount off this public forum).
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Post by Village Idiot on Sept 27, 2019 8:12:36 GMT -5
I’m surprised they’re not calling this Ukrainegate.
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