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Post by Russell Letson on May 7, 2020 17:05:02 GMT -5
So where does an information-hosting organization draw the line? There are a number of near-obligatory examples of inflammatory, hateful, lying, deceptive, stuff that even a First Amendment enthusiast like me would not tolerate on a blog or forum I hosted. If virtual Proud Boy were to show up in my virtual salon, I'd show him the virtual door without a moment's hesitation. My virtual house, my actual rules.
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Post by fauxmaha on May 7, 2020 17:06:12 GMT -5
The thing that bothers me is that a large percentage of those still working are treading water. There's little or no economy happening. Many companies are keeping key people on in hopes that things will get rolling again and they'll need them. But the companies are loosing money all day long. That's a pregnant situation that can't be sustained in it's present form. Pretty accurate encapsulation of my operation. My PPP money will keep everyone on the payroll through the end of next month. After that? Unless business picks up, I'm laying everyone off. But the cheerful news is I've noticed a distinct uptick in activity over the last two days. Nothing huge, and still well below normal, but after the better part of a month of nothing, it is a clear change.
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Post by fauxmaha on May 7, 2020 17:30:57 GMT -5
So where does an information-hosting organization draw the line? There are a number of near-obligatory examples of inflammatory, hateful, lying, deceptive, stuff that even a First Amendment enthusiast like me would not tolerate on a blog or forum I hosted. If virtual Proud Boy were to show up in my virtual salon, I'd show him the virtual door without a moment's hesitation. My virtual house, my actual rules. I never said YouTube doesn't have the legal right to refuse a video. I think they do, although one interpretation of the CDA suggests they would give up certain legal protections if they apply editorial control over their content. (BTW, I also think a baker has a right to refuse a commission...and I'd be interested in seeing how you reconcile the contradiction present in your different conclusions to each example). In any case, I doubt the law will matter much here. My point is that, by the standard you described, YouTube's action was perfectly counterproductive.
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Post by fauxmaha on May 7, 2020 17:41:17 GMT -5
Latest entry in the "Straight Into My Veins" file:
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Post by millring on May 7, 2020 18:06:26 GMT -5
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Post by Russell Letson on May 7, 2020 18:32:29 GMT -5
(BTW, I also think a baker has a right to refuse a commission...and I'd be interested in seeing how you reconcile the contradiction present in your different conclusions to each example). In any case, I doubt the law will matter much here. My point is that, by the standard you described, YouTube's action was perfectly counterproductive. Well, there's the matter of what constitutes a "public accomodation," various anti-discrimination laws, plus that old conservative favorite, "community standards." What kind of "commission"? A cake with two grooms/brides? Any cake that includes signals that the celebrants are not One Man and One Woman? Any cake lacking specific semiotics other than "wedding" that will go to a same-sex couple? A cake for a mixed-race couple? A gay mixed-race couple? To what degree is said cake a political or artistic expression that could be attributed (however wrongly) to the baker? At what point does "we don't serve those people/associate with those events" cross over into protected speech territory? As for the second assertion, I repeat: Nothing is going to discourage conspiracy buffs, so while banning toxic bullshit might reinforce the nut jobs' delusions of persecution and Sekrut Stuff Going On, letting it run effectively encourages nuttery by allowing it to spread. It's a lose-lose.
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Post by epaul on May 7, 2020 18:51:43 GMT -5
I haven't watched the Mikovit video. What's it say? It appeared to be a production of, by, and for, the anti-vac crowd. The focus was on Mikovit and how she had discovered that a vaccine caused chronic fatigue syndrome. The claim was that her research was squashed and buried by the medical establishment, with DR. Fauci getting star billing. You can read the Snopes article for the story of her paper, the inability of her research to be duplicated, questions about her methodology, and subsequent withdrawal and disavowal of her paper by Science. The retraction by Science: In the comments there were credible claims of multiple falsehoods and slander and a very plausible account of the claimed swarming SWAT footage being a "cut and paste" job (for instance, it was night footage of a search warrant that was executed at 9:00 AM. (I did wonder about the coincidence of a film crew being so fortuitously on location) What I saw was a first person account, Mitovit's account, of a conspiratorial cover-up of her discovery of a link between vaccines and chronic fatigue syndrome complete with implications of other vaccine-related cover-ups executed by a corrupt American medical establishment, from the CDC on down, that is in bed with vaccine manufacturers. Mitovit was the tragic heroine. Dr. Fauci had a starring role as villain. It was very clearly an anti-vac film put out by, and circulated by, the anti-vac crowd. A big conspiracy is involved. No sex. But they did hire a former porn star to play the part of the interviewer. The SNOPES link: www.snopes.com/fact-check/scientist-vaccine-jailed/
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Post by TKennedy on May 7, 2020 18:56:22 GMT -5
Latest entry in the "Straight Into My Veins" file: Well at least they have masks on. I think as we open more it is going to become painfully obvious that masks and hand washing are our meal tickets out of trouble. Effective social distancing is probably not that realistic. Ain't no magic bullet on the horizon that I can see. Hope I'm wrong.
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Post by jdd2 on May 7, 2020 19:14:06 GMT -5
Just off the news--No new deaths in china for 22 days now.
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Post by epaul on May 7, 2020 19:51:38 GMT -5
After watching Pete's and John's Youtube clips, this just occurred to me (I'm probably the last guy here it did occur to) for all the talk and hope placed in the development of a vaccine for Corvid19, if one were found, 20% of the people will probably refuse to take it (maybe more). Never thought of that. Till now. And now it is a head slap, of course, wow!. Nothing is ever simple. One controversy after another.
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COVID 19
May 7, 2020 20:36:31 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by aquaduct on May 7, 2020 20:36:31 GMT -5
After watching Pete's and John's Youtube clips, this just occurred to me (I'm probably the last guy here it did occur to) for all the talk and hope placed in the development of a vaccine for Corvid19, if one were found, 20% of the people will probably refuse to take it (maybe more). Never thought of that. Till now. And now it is a head slap, of course, wow!. Nothing is ever simple. One controversy after another. I've never gotten the flu vaccine either. What the hell is that stupid shit supposed to prove?
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COVID 19
May 7, 2020 20:48:08 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by aquaduct on May 7, 2020 20:48:08 GMT -5
At work today one of the line operators mentioned (completely unprovoked) that video that his wife had seen.
So much for the power of unmitigated hubris in convincing the masses to buy in to the horseshit the elites have been trying to sell them for the last couple of decades.
Good luck with that.
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Post by james on May 7, 2020 21:55:59 GMT -5
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Post by fauxmaha on May 8, 2020 5:15:20 GMT -5
I remember back in long ago February when the word from the "experts" (CDC, WHO) was "Don't buy masks. They don't help".
That was, of course, a lie. Propaganda designed to keep the common people from buying up masks so as to ensure more availability for medical personnel.
Anyone with a lick of sense could see through the BS at the time.
I also remember back in January when this was first percolating into our consciousness all the various woke/SJW officials from NYC telling us there was no risk to congregating for Chinese New Year celebrations and any suggestion to the contrary was because racism.
Now the Plandemic people are the problem? Please. That video is popular precisely because of all the official BS being peddled. Plandemic is bad because it's anti science? They're just getting in on the grift.
Don't hate the player. Hate the game.
I just googled "plandemic" and the first however many hits were stories saying things like "FB/YouTube/Twitter are desperately trying to delete the video".
All I can say is if you think such suppression efforts are helpful, you don't understand how the human mind works. And if you think exposing the public to false information is a problem, then don't use the same technique yourself.
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Post by jdd2 on May 8, 2020 5:38:22 GMT -5
oops!
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Post by millring on May 8, 2020 6:13:39 GMT -5
Now the Plandemic people are the problem? Please. That video is popular precisely because of all the official BS being peddled. Plandemic is bad because it's anti science? They're just getting in on the grift. Don't hate the player. Hate the game. It's what I've been weeping about through this whole thing. The real crisis of the immediate day is a crisis of trust. Everyone who has navigated the internet for any length of time has become very skilled at confirming their biases. In other words, we full well understand the concept of bias confirmation but to a greater extent than at any time in history (I am guessing*), everyone believes that bias confirmation is a condition of those who do not agree with them. Even though almost everyone knows what bias confirmation is, the more they understand it, the less they believe it applies to themselves. But it isn't symmetrical. Those outside the institutional main still get the messaging from that main. Then they (we) run to our sources to have our biases reinstated. But while those inside the institutional main are aware that there is another voice outside their walls, they are convinced that it is monolithic. They even have a name for it. Every time. They refer to anything that holds to anything outside the institutional main as "conspiracy theories". Not differences of opinion, nor schools of thought, nor differing scholarship, and definitely not useful dissension. No. "Conspiracy theories". It works every time. If it's a conspiracy (and it always is) it need not be listened to, read, or heeded. The only actual exposure those informed by the institutional main have to alternate points of view is filtered through their own institutional sources (that confirms that they are conspiracy theories and not worth the effort of investigating). And so they say they know what, for instance, Rush Limbaugh says because they constantly read it in Media Matters. They know what Trump says because they can see him quoted in the nightly news. The only other exposure they have to alternate view points, then, is in the poorly spoken masses who can articulate a viewpoint with no more accuracy or precision than those who believe the institutional narrative unquestioningly. Still, no matter how it occurred or how asymmetrical it is, it is the biggest crisis of our day. It's the gasoline that has been thrown on COVID-19. It is the amplifier that COVID-19 is plugged into and turned up to 11. It is why we can have such deliciously ironic (even funny if they were not so tragic) contradictions as anti-vaccine crowds suddenly pointing out the statistical improbability of harm coming to the average person from COVID-19....while 20 somethings who get their news from the institutional main -- the medical community, the university, the nightly news -- consider themselves at great risk of the virus. The entire anti-vaccine movement is based on a fear of the less than 0.1% chance that harm will come from a vaccine. Because the potential harm is so tragically unthinkable, the statistical improbability isn't persuasive. And the medical establishment has tried in vain to get anti-vaccine folks to understand that very statistical improbability. Yet now the self-same medical establishment that has been advancing vaccines because that less than 0.1% chance that something bad will occur (and that stands in contrast to the good that will occur).... .... has nevertheless convinced 20-40 somethings to believe that they will die of COVID-19, though they stand at a less than 0.1% chance of doing so. As I said, deliciously ironic -- even funny if it wasn't so tragic. The institutional main has convinced us to shut down the entire economy and cause worldwide starvation on the anti-vaxxer's math. *if you've made it this far in reading....I'm guessing that you already had your "argument" against me formulated in your mind -- and it was going to be that I couldn't possibly know if it's the worst it's been in history. And that's how these things work. If I make a grammatical error, or I generalize, or I misname something, you get to disregard the entire post.
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Post by fauxmaha on May 8, 2020 7:44:50 GMT -5
It is why we can have such deliciously ironic (even funny if they were not so tragic) contradictions as anti-vaccine crowds suddenly pointing out the statistical improbability of harm coming to the average person from COVID-19....while 20 somethings who get their news from the institutional main -- the medical community, the university, the nightly news -- consider themselves at great risk of the virus. The entire anti-vaccine movement is based on a fear of the less than 0% chance that harm will come from a vaccine. Because the potential harm is so tragically unthinkable, the statistical improbability isn't persuasive. And the medical establishment has tried in vain to get anti-vaccine folks to understand that very statistical improbability. Yet now the self-same medical establishment that has been advancing vaccines because that less than 0% chance that something bad will occur (and that stands in contrast to the good that will occur).... .... has nevertheless convinced 20-40 somethings to believe that they will die of COVID-19, though they stand at a less than 0% chance of doing so. As I said, deliciously ironic -- even funny if it wasn't so tragic. The institutional main has convinced us to shut down the entire economy and cause worldwide starvation on the anti-vaxxer's math.Brilliant. Absolutely perfect.
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Post by AlanC on May 8, 2020 7:45:37 GMT -5
"But it isn't symmetrical. Those outside the institutional main still get the messaging from that main. Then they (we) run to our sources to have our biases reinstated. But while those inside the institutional main are aware that there is another voice outside their walls, they are convinced that it is monolithic. The only actual exposure they have to it is filtered through their own institutional sources. They say they know what, for instance, Rush Limbaugh says because they constantly read it in Media Matters. They know what Trump says because they can see him quoted in the nightly news".
I thought about this statement while out on my morning walk- in between several battles with the dogs interspersed along the road as I endeavored not to be bitten- and I had several good examples of revelations that have come to light lately due to documents being pried out of various institutions.
But as I got here I thought..."Nah, toodle it, won't matter, ain't gonna waste my time". People are gonna believe what they want to believe.
Every time I read the fine print below James's posts I think about the great gulf between our sense of what is "right and true". His quote is correct but I see the reciprocal of what he sees (mostly). Kinda disheartening if you dwell on it.
That is why, here, in this place, "Toodle it" works for me.
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Post by Marshall on May 8, 2020 7:53:22 GMT -5
*if you've made it this far in reading....I'm guessing that you already had your "argument" against me formulated in your mind -- and it was going to be that I couldn't possibly know if it's the worst it's been in history. And that's how these things work. If I make a grammatical error, or I generalize, or I misname something, you get to disregard the entire post. How can anything be less than 0 % ? (just teasing you John. Not tasing you).
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Post by jdd2 on May 8, 2020 8:42:45 GMT -5
bloomberg: (sorry I don't have the time to clean some of the chaff out)
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